Authenticity & Moving the Culture of Science Forward: Dr. Raven Baxter

In this episode, I interviewed Dr. Raven Baxter, otherwise known as Raven the Science Maven. She is a prominent scientist, science communicator, and STEM educator. She is also the President of the The Science Haven.

Transcription

Transcribed by Cami Brousse (she/her)

JP Flores (he/him): Cool. So I usually start this off with an autobiography. So do you mind telling me, you know, your name? Your educational journey, scientific journey, and where you are now.

Dr. Raven Baxter: Yeah, I don’t mind. So my name is Raven Baxter. I am 30, currently. And I, born and raised in Buffalo, New York. Um, really just had an early gravitation to science, just asking questions. I was a very curious kid. And so, I began by asking questions about like weather and the atmosphere and space. And then once I found out, like by going to Space Camp, that I was afraid of heights, I was like “Dang. So I am not going to be an astronaut”. And so, you know, I kind of pointed my sights back to Earth and was asking questions about the environment, and one way or another, found my way to molecular biology and just became completely fascinated with it. I see it as a language that everyone speaks but, like, doesn’t really explore. And it’s just so fascinating to me. So I dive down that rabbit hole.

And, yeah, I got a Bachelor’s and Master’s degree in biology with an emphasis on cell and molecular biology and really like, through personal experiences, decided that I wanted to share the information. I wanted to be like a bridge between – you know, I wanted – I believe that knowledge is power, and once I kind of graduated and realized that so many people didn’t know basic biology, I’m like, okay, you know, I feel a calling to serve there. So I became an educator. And so I have a Phd in education or really science communication. And yeah, so I combine, like all of my technical and social expertise in science to do culturally responsive science communication.

And so that led me to have this huge platform as Dr. Raven, the Science Maven, which many people know me as. I don’t even think that people know my real name. To be honest, like, it is Raven, but, like, my last name is Baxter, not Maven or Science Maven.

JP Flores (he/him): Like the Disney show, which I think is wild, like so wild, like.

Dr. Raven Baxter: Was so pissed when that show came out. I was in fourth grade, and like back then we were using home phones and stuff, and we had like the school directory where you could find any kids’ number in the school and call them. So the night that That’s So Raven premiered, people were calling my house nonstop, and like “Raven, turn on the TV.” I had no idea the show was coming out. I was oblivious as a child. So like I turn on the TV. And it’s like a girl named Raven Baxter. I was like, “Are you freaking, kidding me?” Of all the names… like this isn’t even a common name. It’s so random, Raven Baxter like – why, why…

JP Flores (he/him): Oh, man!

Dr. Raven Baxter: Ah, anyway… I-I will never, not be so amped up and pissed about it, like!

JP Flores (he/him): Sorry for bringing it up. I-.

Dr. Raven Baxter: No!

JP Flores (he/him): I was like, wait like this, that that is so wild that it’s-. [inaudible]

Dr. Raven Baxter: I say pissed, but I’m- I mean it’s- it’s a playful- it’s a playful pissed off.

JP Flores (he/him): Yeah.

Dr. Raven Baxter: I think I was vindicated when I was invited by Disney to come to speak to their employees at [inaudible].

JP Flores (he/him): What?!.

Dr. Raven Baxter: Yeah, I- I gave a talk. And so my first slide at the Disney HQ was like to set the record straight – “Who is the real and original Raven Baxter?” So I’m, like, had a whole presentation slide about it. So, I got a lot of, like, it was super cathartic. I got a lot of redemption from that, so I’m over it. I’m over it. Thank you.

JP Flores (he/him): It’s awesome.

Dr. Raven Baxter: Thank you.

JP Flores (he/him): So can you tell me, you know, like, how are you raised? I I think, to be a science communicator. I don’t actually think this is true. So I think there’s a lot of different types of science communication. I think, you know, through being Raven the Science Maven and having Youtube and all these different things. A lot of people link science communication to extrovertedness. But science communication is so much more than that, right? But from your experience, how much– well, let me start here. Are you an extroverted person? Do you think you’re an extroverted person at all?

Dr. Raven Baxter: 100%. Yeah.

JP Flores (he/him): Okay, so how much does that play a role in- in- in science communication? Because I am, too, and it has wonders, but I know that’s not the only thing in science communication.

42 00:04:51.450 –> 00:04:53.422 Dr. Raven Baxter: So for me, I think it plays a big role, and I say that because I think that in being extroverted you sort of have to navigate people’s perceptions of you in a certain way. And that in itself is a very, I mean for me, I- I’m very introspective and like socially strategic. So for me, that’s a really deep introspective process. And I, I do think that there are, you know, besides being, like, extroverted in itself, I do think that that comes with a certain set of social skills and strengths that do help communicators. But, I see what you’re saying, like not necessarily true for all science communicators, but I do think that there’s a special skill set in being extroverted.

JP Flores (he/him): Yeah, definitely. And you mentioned before I started the recording that you’re in DC. Do- do you mind sharing why or like, where- where are you at now in your- in your career? What are you up to now?

Dr. Raven Baxter: I fell in love.

JP Flores (he/him): Oh, okay.

Dr. Raven Baxter: Yeah. Well, I say that because I was I left my position at UC Irvine to spend some time developing like Dr. Raven, the Science Maven as a, as an entity like, and make it into a business. And that takes a lot of time and attention to learn. And I’m a scientist first. And so but the entrepreneurship was like, I really had to take time and say, “Okay. You know, how am I gonna do this?”.

And so, in the- in the midst of that I met a my current partner, Ron, who works at NASA Goddard. He’s a theoretical astrophysicist, and he was like, hey! Why don’t you come up and live with me? And I was like, “Huh! This is- this is great!” That’s how I made it here. But I actually learned in being here that there’s a lot I mean, obviously, this gonna sound kind of dumb, but I- I realized that there were so many national hubs here. Just being in the nation’s capital I’ve been involved with, just by proxy, like Triple A which is… my gosh! I forgot the acronym.

JP Flores (he/him): The American Association of American something I don’t know.

Dr. Raven Baxter: Advancement of the sciences. Yeah.

JP Flores (he/him): Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dr. Raven Baxter: So the A’s go somewhere. But yeah, like, there’s so much cool stuff happening here. The National Science Teaching Association is here. I mean? Obviously, the White House. I’ve done several things at the White House. So it’s just a really. I’m really fortunate that I landed here actually, by chance.

JP Flores (he/him): Yeah, definitely. Yeah, that’s a that’s it’s so weird. You say that, like being from Southern California, I had no idea what was on the east coast, like I had an idea, obviously, but didn’t realize how many things were in that DMV area – the, you know, District of Columbia and Maryland, Virginia area. So that’s really interesting. You say that, so you moved around a lot. You know, how has it been like dealing with the different culture shocks, If you’ve had any right? Like moving from Buffalo, I think you’ve been there for most of your life, and then you moved to California. Now you’re in DC, like what are the most striking things as a scientist and as someone with your identities?

Dr. Raven Baxter: Well. you know there’s no place like Home Buffalo is. I feel like a great place to raise a family. I got a great upbringing there. Very wholesome town. You know, big. It’s a big-ish city, but very small town vibe. I got a lot of sense of community there. You really could walk into any building in Buffalo and feel like you’re someone’s cousin, no matter, no matter the race, no matter the background, like neighborhood you grew up in, how much money you make, like family was family, and so that’s that’s what I grew up on. And I think that kind of shows a lot in my science communication. I try- I try to treat everyone like family. And so yeah, I think the the starkest difference in the places that I lived in was actually the move to California. I struggled a lot because I was working at UC Irvine. And, as you know, Irvine is a very affluent area. I lived in Newport Beach, which is even more affluent. And like, yeah, I would even say grossly affluent. And I, you know, didn’t know that about the place I just knew “Oh, it’s by the water that sounds like a great place to live”. But then, you know, I- I would try to be involved in the community. And I’m like, “Oh, these people are kind of out of touch, like.”

JP Flores (he/him): Yeah, I agree.

Dr. Raven Baxter: So. Yeah, that was hard. And, you know, the conversations that I had looked a lot different than the ones I had at home, where you know, at home in Buffalo, people would ask you about your day like genuinely curious about you. And in Southern, you know, Orange County, basically it was more so like, “Oh, what do you do? What properties do you own? Is that your car like?”. Yeah, it- it was- it was tough. I wasn’t able to make very deep connections there, and that’s kind of a part of the reason why I left it’s just- it was so much effort to settle some roots there that I’m like, I’m stressed out. I have to go and other things as well. But yeah… We might get into the other things later in the podcast!

JP Flores (he/him): Only if you want to, only if you want to. maybe we’ll get there eventually we’ll see. So, I know you spent a lot of time in Buffalo as you’ve as we’ve already talked about, and I think you’ve spent some time working at community colleges as well, right? What was that like? And as a scientist who was doing research, what can you say about, you know, the different community colleges out there?

And- and I asked this question, because, you know, I- I’m sure you know this, but like 30% of UC students are community college transfers. So I’ve always thought about that path because I feel like a lot of people kind of neglect that option. At least, when I was in high school, from my experience, a lot of people were like, “why would I go to a community college first? I wanna go straight into a 4-year”. But you know, there’s a lot of reasons why people would do that. You know, they want to save some money, they- they are still trying to figure out what they wanna do in the future. So yeah, what- what was it like? I think you said you were teaching at a community college, maybe read that somewhere.

Dr. Raven Baxter: Yeah. So I- funny story. I’ve skimmed over a lot of my academic journey, but a part of that was that I went to college when I was 16, and I was very smart, but I didn’t- I had no concept of studying. Zero understanding of scholarship. I was very gifted, but like gifted doesn’t translate into scholarship right? So I got to college and just completely dropped the ball like you would have thought it was a bowling ball the way.

JP Flores (he/him): I feel you. I did the same thing.

Dr. Raven Baxter: Dude, I had a point 6 GPA. Yikes, 0 point 6, and they kick you out of school when you can’t pull your grades up, like they put you on probation, and they give you a warning. Then they put you on probation, and if you can’t recover from that, they’ll ask you to leave. And so I had to leave, and I came home and went to a community college to recover, which I did. And I- it was interesting because it was the community college back home, like again, Buffalo’s big city, but small town vibe. And so, the the community college had this reputation of like “Oh, if you go there like, if you went there straight out of high school, those are the kids who are like stupid,” or something that was like the reputation they just really looked down on it when in reality it’s an it is a really good option.

JP Flores (he/him): Oh, it’s the move. Yeah.

Dr. Raven Baxter: Yeah, to.

JP Flores (he/him): I would have, I would have went. I would have done that.

Dr. Raven Baxter: Absolutely. Yeah. I- I mean, I- I can’t imagine a timeline where I would have chosen to go to the community college just because of the stereotypes that I was influenced by, but like in hindsight, best decision ever. It was an extremely diverse environment. I- my classes I had with- I had a grandmother in my class, I had people in the military, recent high school graduates, you know, single moms like all kinds of races, ethnicities, ages. Like, and we all were just in it together, and it was so cool. And I will also say that the most passionate and interesting professors that I’ve had have been the community college professors.

JP Flores (he/him): Really!? Why do- why do you say that? So like what’s the- what experience have you had to like- what- what- what were these professors like?

Dr. Raven Baxter: Well, I would say that it didn’t seem like they were invested in the same structures that your traditional 4 year institutions, you know, would place pressure on a faculty member to subscribe to. So-

JP Flores (he/him): Great-.

Dr. Raven Baxter: You know where, if you go to a 4 year institution, they’re trying to get tenure. They’re trying to do publications. They’re- it’s- it’s very much publisher parish pretty much, you know, that’s generalization. However, at the Community College I was being taught by people who had like full time jobs, you know, sometimes, or sometimes they were like full-on professors at the community college, but the ones that I had, one of them was a teacher, a high school teacher during the day, and during the night they taught a community college class. So we got that same inclusive, you know, foundational style of teaching that you were getting K-12, but just in a college environment. And that was- that felt like a really safe space. Especially for me, kind of trying to recover from, like, being basically an idiot. So like, yeah, I-

JP Flores (he/him): Oh!

Dr. Raven Baxter: Yeah, I- that’s I- that’s just my experience, though, like I, how was your experience in community college?

JP Flores (he/him): I- I didn’t go to community college. I went straight into Occidental College.

Dr Raven Baxter: Oh okay!

JP Flores (he/him): Yeah. It’s a small Liberal Arts school. It’s a 4-year- I was recruited to play baseball there. But, same thing happened to me, where, you know, I was smart in high school. I didn’t really need to study you to make grades. But the the- first semester I got there I think I was at a 1.2 GPA. And my coach at the time was like, “You need to get this up, or else you’re a goner”. And I was like, “Oh, man, I need to”. He wasn’t at it like harsh about it, but that was a real real wake up call for me. And, you know, I had other friends go to community college first, and by, you know, their second year they were transferring to the UCLA’s to the UC Berkley’s, and it just made me think like, “why didn’t I just do that? I could have saved so much money, and and would have been fine”. And my parents were telling me to- telling me to do that, but it’s- I don’t know what it is. I- I we need to figure out how to like, get that ego of not going to a 4 year, or that the ego of going to a 4 year out of people’s heads, I think.

But, this is kind of like a harder question, but what do you think, you know, institutions, or even Federal agencies, what do you think they can do to uplift and bring in community college students into their campuses? Or at least, you know, share their resources to- to students like that?

Dr. Raven Baxter: I think- gosh… Well, first, I think it’s helpful to know where you can go with your education at a community college. So I would say that some of the most impactful speaking engagements that I’ve had were panels that I’ve had at community colleges and opening up the students’ eyes to “Wow! I can start here and go there”. Like, that’s actually the motto of the community college.

JP Flores (he/him): [inaudible, in agreeance]

Dr. Raven Baxter: It would start here, go anywhere but like, that’s very true. Your community college degree doesn’t limit you to certain experiences in life, necessarily right?

JP Flores (he/him): Mm-hmm. Right.

Dr. Raven Baxter: In a perfect world, it wouldn’t. And, but I would say you shouldn’t subscribe to the mindset that it would. And so that’s one thing, you know, show visibility to your like Federal agencies should show visibility to their employees who have community college credentials. And then I would also just include community colleges in things, right? Like it’s- I feel like they get excluded from so much as nobody’s really, I mean, at least in a lot of the conversations that I’ve had, they get overlooked. And I don’t- I don’t think that’s necessarily fair or helping make those connections.

JP Flores (he/him): Do mean like, add them in grants? Or do you mean like, oh, give them more research. Yeah, okay.

Dr. Raven Baxter: Just conversations like I feel like when I’m in conversations about how to progress, the state of science, culture, how to like, improve, or diversify the stem, workforce it- I always bring up community colleges because that’s in my purview, as a you know, community, college, former college student, and like when I bring it up, they’re like, “Oh, yeah, that’s a good idea”. And I’m like “Duh, yeah.”

JP Flores (he/him): It’s, like, it’s right down the street.

Dr. Raven Baxter: It’s right here.

JP Flores (he/him): They probably drive by it. Yeah.

Dr. Raven Baxter: And they’d be so grateful.

JP Flores (he/him): Yeah. And another thing we talk a lot about in academia is, you know, finding the right mentors, finding the right people, and, you know, trying to find that good advice surrounding yourself with the right communities. So, can you tell me more about, you know, your most memorable mentors or mentees, and- and tell me what made them so memorable?

Dr. Raven Baxter: Oh, my gosh! This is such a good question! So I didn’t- I didn’t grow up with any mentors. I really wanted a mentor when I was in college, and I’ll never forget that I- I went to this conference, and it was like a Women’s Professional Development Conference, and I attended this workshop. And this woman gave an amazing presentation. And I was like, “Yeah, like, I wanna be like her. I wanna speak like her. I wanna, you know, be able to understand myself and the work that I do enough to give presentations like that, and stand confidently and answer questions and be of service”, and like I looked up to her right. And I said, “Well, maybe this is my sign. I should ask to be her mentee”. And so I went up to her after her presentation, and I was so excited I’m like, “Yes, I found her!” And I told her about myself. She’s like, “well, you know, tell me about yourself, etc.” I did and she said, “Well, I actually want to be like you.”

JP Flores (he/him): Huh!

Dr. Raven Baxter: And I was like, “What do you mean? No!?” And I, that kind of put some things into perspective, like, I realized that a lot of the women that I looked up to, not just women, just people that I thought would be good mentors. My- my dreams for myself might actually be larger than the dreams that they have for themselves, so they can’t necessarily, they don’t see themselves as a mentor to me. But they do want to support me, but they just can’t, you know, they don’t see themselves as someone who could bring me into the space that I want to be in. And so, I never got a mentor, because I would keep encountering those situations where I, again, like people just were like, “Oh, yeah, girl, you got that.” So, I have a mentee now, though. She is at Buff State, and she is amazing. She’s multi-talented. She reminds me a lot of myself. She’s an artist, a creative. She’s a scientist, and- and an educator. And I think it’s- it was really important for me to step in and kind of help her on her way, because I- I had to kind of trail blaze a little bit in my own lane, and I just don’t want her to encounter the- that dip the same difficult path that I had.

JP Flores (he/him): Right? Yeah, that’s amazing. So it that- that you know idea of- of self mentoring and trailblazing, and the idea of like, “Oh, you know if no one else can do it you can”. Right? I- I think it’s tough, because a lot of people, you know, can encounter imposter syndrome with that as well. And have you ever felt that? And if so, how did you overcome it? Or how do you at least like cope with it? Because a lot of people, when I ask that question, they’re kinda like it just never goes away to be quite honest.

Dr. Raven Baxter: It’s funny… So I think that this kind of goes along with your first question about being extroverted. And like the- so for me, the skill set that I think I’ve acquired through me being extroverted is realizing that everyone is just human. And so, when I think about- when I go into situations where I’m like, “Okay I’m a little uncomfortable,” I think about all of the times where I’ve done something, you know, and at the end of the day everything was okay. Like I’m still alive. I wasn’t- I didn’t get embarrassed like, and I- I wasn’t received poorly, like everything was fine.

JP Flores (he/him): Mm-hmm.

Dr. Raven Baxter: And so I try to shed that pressure off of myself to be perfect, because no one’s perfect, to know everything, because no one knows everything. And like, as long as I give everything my best shot and ask for help when I need it, I don’t feel like an imposter because I just assume everyone else is doing the same thing.

JP Flores (he/him): Right. Yeah. And another thing that a lot of people talk about is, you know, trying to bridge your personal identity with your scientific identity. Right? So, like, for me, the way I talk to my PI, my principal investigator, so different than the way- or I used to be- used to be very different than how I talk to my friends, and what I’ve started to learn is like, you know, my personality doesn’t have to stop at the door whenever I enter lab like, I can totally be myself. But I still, you know, experience that code switching a little bit where I’ll like, you know, talk to colleagues as if they were like, you know, my friend, my friends in LA. So, can you talk about that? Because it seems like you’re, I don’t know if this, it seems like you’re very good at making sure that you don’t need a code to it. You’re you’re you’re your authentic, genuine self wherever you go. Right? Like, how do you keep that up in a place that is, as. you know, –we can use the word affluent– as affluent as academia?

Dr. Raven Baxter: Um, I- I did some research. So for my dissertation, I studied the actual impact of authentic representation of scientists in the media on the sense of identity, like stem identity in underrepresented individuals. And then in correlation to the impact, like what the experience is of someone who doesn’t feel like they can express themselves alternatively. And so what I found out was that people really need representation, like authentic representation of scientists to feel like they can in turn be their authentic selves. And I also learned that when people don’t feel like they can be their authentic selves, it’s actually- it has a negative psychological impact. And this is documented in decades of research. So there is- there are real, like, physiological consequences when people are expected to be in environments inauthentically. And so, not only physiological consequences, but when we arrive to work or show up, you know, in our workplaces as caricatures of who we are, we aren’t properly representing ourselves in a way that could potentially move the culture forward.

JP Flores (he/him): Yeah.

Dr. Raven Baxter: How are we supposed to be compasses for science culture if the compass is off? Right? We have to point to the true North and you do that by being authentic. And so I- even though it’s- it’s hard for me. I- again extroverted like I do not care what people think. And so, I’m hoping by like set- I’m hoping to set an example like in a- and do a domino effect. Where, when- if people see me going about how I do, and I’m okay, and I’m still getting opportunities and still being celebrated and still accomplishing things, and I’m okay. I hope to inspire other people to do the same.

JP Flores (he/him): Right. So what do you think are the barriers that are stopping people from being them full- their full selves? Is- do you think it’s like a re- it’s solely a representation problem? Do you think there needs to be, you know, something that changes structurally in terms of like recruitment retention like, what do you think are the biggest barriers, and- and what would be your like proposed solutions?

Dr. Raven Baxter: I honestly think that the barriers are just people’s limited mindsets. The- the real only thing that’s hurting you when you decide to show up authentically is someone else’s opinion, right?

JP Flores (he/him): Right.

Dr. Raven Baxter: I think that it- it can make some people uncomfortable when they experience something new, and that experience can simply be just you, and like your culture, or you know, or maybe you didn’t code switch. And maybe they didn’t understand some slang or like-

JP Flores (he/him): Right!

Dr. Raven Baxter: I don’t know… Like, maybe people where they come from don’t dress, you know, with loud colors, or, you know, tighter clothing, and like maybe it- it might not be things that people are used to, but that- where discomfort happens there’s also room for growth. I- I say that whenever I’ve- every time I’ve been uncomfortable. There’s always been the time period after where it’s just growth, immense growth. And so I think limited mindsets prevent growth. And then, there’s the people who have limited mindsets are often people in power who are impacting people’s access to different opportunities. And so it’s kind of like this cycle that I personally am hell bent on breaking.

JP Flores (he/him): Same. That’s why we’re doing that.

Dr. Raven Baxter: Exactly. Like, let’s take this whole thing down. I’m so tired.

JP Flores (he/him): Yep, yeah. Yeah. So before we move on to, like, more fun questions, what advice would you give an early career researcher interested in dedicating their career to science and society? Because I feel like, you know, we’re moving towards this culture of, “we’re more than just scientists”, right? I think a lot of aspiring scientists are like, “Oh, I love my research. I love my science. But also I wanna do the science communication thing. But also I wanna pursue music. But also, you know, biotech and science policy should be called non-traditional, you know, academic jobs” right? Like, what is your advice to- to make sure that people can pursue more than just science and be more than just a scientist?

Dr. Raven Baxter: Absolutely. You know. I would even say- I would say that it’s really really special to have a calling and feel passionate about something. I’ve met people and even dated people who did not have a passion for anything in life.

JP Flores (he/him): I’m sorry, but that’s the worst I feel you on that.

Dr. Raven Baxter: Right? It’s- it’s- and that doesn’t mean like, and I’m sure you would agree it doesn’t- we’re not saying that they’re not special people, and that, you know they’re the worst. But I- I kind of took it for granted, prior to those experiences, how special it is to actually have a passion, and I was naive and thinking that everyone felt like they were called to do something, and you just gotta find it. Like, some people genuinely just don’t- they’re- they’re just chilling on this- on this planet. And that’s cool.

JP Flores (he/him): Yeah.

Dr. Raven Baxter: So I would say, if you are someone who is listening, and you feel like you have a calling to do something, whether it’s science or something, or science AND something, you should give yourself every opportunity to pursue all of those things. I- on my own podcast, The Science of Life, just interviewed someone who works for the… Oh, my gosh! Might be the EPA… However, they’re a marine scientist. But they make music. They’re- they’re a sound producer, and they make music, using only marine sounds.

JP Flores (he/him): What?! That’s so sick! Yeah, can you can you plug them, plug them? Your podcast? And-

Dr. Raven Baxter: Yes, yes, that interview is with Dr. Heather Spence, and she is amazing. But- and you should probably interview her.

JP Flores (he/him): That’s so sick.

Dr. Raven Baxter: Super sick, and the music is good. It’s not- it’s not corny. It’s not cheesy. It’s stuff that you actually wanna get up and move to. But she found a niche and just dove right into it. She consults. She does, like, consulting for films, and like different creative projects, make sure that they’re using the right sounds. And she has stuff on Spotify and like, I admire her so much. Because, she said- I actually think she majored in sound production in college-

JP Flores (he/him): What?

Dr. Raven Baxter: Yeah, but she’s working at the EPA, and she’s a marine scientist. I believe she pivoted into marine science. But yeah, it’s- there are so many ways to show up in this world as a scientist. And I think I would even go as far to say that, you know, we- we hear people kind of throw this around time to time, like they say, “well, everybody’s a scientist kind of like, right?” But that’s sort of true. I- I think that we should kind of look at science as everyone’s natural curiosity. Right? We do have these structures and systems to get degrees in it. But I think everyone on this planet is curious about what the heck is going on. And so we’re naturally scientists. So I, when you think about like “Oh, well, can I do this and this and this?” I’m like, “Well, yeah, because technically, everyone’s a scientist.” So if you feel like, you want to make music, just do it.

JP Flores (he/him): Yeah.

Dr. Raven Baxter: Yeah, you don’t have to pick between. You don’t have to pick between the two.

JP Flores (he/him): Yeah, agreed. Yeah, I’m in this weird- so I, yeah, I also make music. I’m a in a band out here in North Carolina. And I’m-

Dr. Raven Baxter: Shut up!

JP Flores (he/him): Yeah, I’m always like “Man, I really want to just like not go to lab today and do this.” My PI listens to this podcast; I probably shouldn’t be saying that. But, you know what, he’s hearing you say this, so it should be fine. Right?

Dr. Raven Baxter: Yeah, I mean, that’s real. You have to have a work life balance.

JP Flores (he/him): Yeah, yeah, exactly. So can you tell us about how Raven the Science Maven came to be like, do you? I’m sure you pro- do you produce your own music like I know you do all the lyrics.

Dr. Raven Baxter: I do, yeah.

JP Flores (he/him): Like, can you tell us about the rise of this like, how does how did this happen?

Dr. Raven Baxter: Yeah, so what happened was…

JP Flores (he/him): While you do that, I’m gonna eat this peanut butter cup.

Dr. Raven Baxter: Sure, sure thing. So I was working as a Drug Discovery Scientist in the Medical Corridor in downtown Buffalo, New York. And the laboratory was situated in the hood, actually across from a homeless shelter, and we were on the very top floor of the lab, so you could see everything. You could look down onto the streets as you were doing your experiments, or taking a break, and just sightsee, you know, daydream whatever. And so, on my breaks, I would go and look out the window. And I would see, down at the homeless shelter, there would be kids playing, you know, living their lives. And all I ever wanted to do was to bring them up into the lab and say, “Hey, look at all this cool, amazing stuff that we’re doing over here like I have this 1 million dollar robot, and we’re doing high throughput drug discovery like, Come, come, look!”

But, there were no opportunities for me to do that. And I’m like “It’s right here. It’s all right here, like just- just steps away”. But yet you have no access to it. You have no idea what’s going on here. We’re doing groundbreaking drug discovery and cancer research. And you like, you have no means of connecting with it. So I left. Um, and I was like, “No, this isn’t okay”. It just felt gross, right? I didn’t- I- I felt justified in “Hey, I have this cool opportunity to do cool science, and like this is what I got my degree for, right?” But I didn’t feel justified in the fact that I had to walk- walk past these communities and not be able to share what I was doing. So I became a science communicator. I pivoted and got an education, you know, and Communications degree, because I wanted to figure out the best ways to build those bridges.

And so, it just so happened that I was a graduate student like during the pandemic, which was a interesting time to be a student. Oh, my gosh, I’m sure you can relate.

JP Flores (he/him): Oh, yeah.

Dr. Raven Baxter: And so, the pandemic hit. And I’m in grad school. And I was like, “Okay. Everyone’s panicking about viruses. But it seems like there’s this disconnect between like what people actually know about viruses and what’s actually happening”. And so, as an extrovert. I decided that the best way to address this was to make a music video. So I made a music video and I remixed Little Boozie’s Wipe Me Down to Wipe It Down.

JP Flores (he/him): It’s so good.

Dr. Raven Baxter: I just like blacked out and just wrote the song in about ten minutes.

JP Flores (he/him): Haha!

Dr. Raven Baxter: And like, yeah, we’re gonna we’re gonna dance in the kitchen and just hope that this makes sense. But I put it on my Facebook privately. My cousin sent me a message, and she’s like “Raven. You have to make this public”. I was like, “There’s absolutely no way, like, the- you couldn’t even pay me. I- this is- this stays in house.” She’s like, “No, please, like all of my friends are petrified, and you just made this so approachable and entertaining. And like, I’m not scared anymore”. And once I heard that, it just drew me back to that calling right, I was like-

JP Flores (he/him): Mm-hmm.

Dr. Raven Baxter: Like “Okay. This is what she’s telling me. I’m- I’m building the bridge, right? And I’m making a change. So I said, “You know what? F*** it. I’m gonna take it off of private and let’s just see what happens.” Dude. It was 48 hours later. That video was on almost every news station in this country.

JP Flores (he/him): Damn! That’s like an- so it was an overnight thing. It was- it was just like you made you put it out for the public and boom it just like it happened.

Dr. Raven Baxter: Literally that, literally, that. JP Flores (he/him): Wow. Wow. That’s so wild.

Dr. Raven Baxter: And so people been rocking with me ever since. And yeah, I mean, I think I was very fortunate that it- things just lined up in a way that was really cool. Yeah.

JP Flores (he/him): Yeah, it- i’s weird how that works cause same thing with this podcast and then, like, going to graduate school, it- it just all happened to be- it’s- it’s like, everything’s luck, like I’m convinced everything’s luck at this point. All luck and timing, for real.

Dr. Raven Baxter: Exactly.

JP Flores (he/him): Yeah. But you’ve been- but you’ve been able to do a lot with this, right? Like you were able to do the Science Haven and all of that. So, and your merch like, I’m about to get my partner a crap ton of your merch, too.

Dr. Raven Baxter: Yes!

JP Flores (he/him): Yeah, so- so freaking cool. So can you tell us about the Science Haven and- and the nonprofit.

Dr. Raven Baxter: Yeah, so I you know, my platform blew up, and I continued to do music and science communication and different media. So, I ended up growing such a huge platform, you know, I think it’s big. It’s not like I have jillions of followers.

JP Flores (he/him): Oh, I think it’s pretty big. Yeah.

Dr. Raven Baxter: I- I am grateful for every single person that does follow me, cause they- they truly support me, and I think they get me. However, I’m not- I’m not the type of person to kind of want everything to be about me like I realized that a lot of people who are in my position, or even in, I guess, even more elevated positions where they have millions of followers, I very rarely see them do things for other people. And their platforms tend to be more centered around like “Me me me. This is what I do. You know, I’m a woman in stem, and like I wear pink and like this is me and me me me”, and I’m like, “I hate that.” I’ve- I’ve really-

JP Flores (he/him): You get it, you really do.

Dr. Raven Baxter: Yeah. I hate it. I hate it, and I don’t say hate a lot. But like I truly despise that, because I feel like what’s the point, you know?

JP Flores (he/him): You have a platform. Use it, right? Like that’s the point of it. That’s-.

Dr. Raven Baxter: Exactly, and- and we’re at we- we’re at this crucial – oh, my gosh! – crucial moment in time and human history! I’m about to be really dramatic right now, but, like, just walk with me. [inaudible].

JP Flores (he/him): But it’s true, but it’s true.

Dr. Raven Baxter: I’m just so passionate about it. But we’re at this crucial time in human history, right? We have thousands and thousands of people who have platforms that we’ve never had before. You used to have to be a superstar for everyone to know your name right, or to at least see your- see your messaging. And yet, we have people who have these audiences, and they’re not using it to advance like this- this, the status quo basically, like. So I feel a huge responsibility to basically be of public service, right? And- and figure out, how am I gonna fix this sh**?

JP Flores (he/him): Yeah, for real, for real.

Dr. Raven Baxter: But can I do as me? And with the knowledge that I have and my skills, how can I, without like burning myself out, create content and community that drives culture forward and gets us into better positions? So, the Science Haven was born largely, you know, I- I took that year off of work to focus on, you know, to regroup. Because I actually got a divorce and left California. I’ve had to regroup. And I was like, “Okay, I’m basically starting from scratch. What do I want my relationship with work to look like and like, what- what are some goals that I want to accomplish- accomplish?” So I was like, “Okay, the Science Maven is going to be one thing. But then, I want there to be a platform where I’m not at the center of everything. And I want to impact. I want to create a hub for people to support me, but in a way that is for everyone.”

So, the Science Haven was born. I wanted to grow new scientists. I wanted to do things off of social media, and I had no idea how to run a nonprofit. I- I knew that I could ask for donation, so I figured I would just think of something that I felt like would be really impactful and run with it. And kind of invent the organization as I go. But you know, as it stands today, the Science Haven is an organization that has a mission of democratizing science and making science engaging and meaningful for all. And so the first initiative and the, really, the flagship initiative that we launched through the Science Haven is called Stellar Dreams and Stellar Dreams has a goal of getting a hundred telescopes – brand name Celestron telescopes – to 100 plus kids across the United States. And we were fortunate to get the- the fundraise from individuals, all individual supporters, enough money to get 10 or yeah, 100 telescopes. And so we actually had a kickoff event in Buffalo. We gave away 30 telescopes to over 30 kids, and it was magical like, I’m- I am positive that we changed some kids’ lives that day. And I could talk more about that. But like I- I wanted to shut up now.

JP Flores (he/him): No, no, you’re so good, please, like I- every single, every single sense, every single word, has just been amazing so far. And like, it’s funny that they’re telescopes, because at the very start you’re like, “Oh, I don’t want to study space like I’m scared of heights.” But here you are.

Dr. Raven Baxter: But again like-

JP Flores (he/him): [inaudible] You’re like inspiring the next, generation, yeah.

Dr. Raven Baxter: That goes to say like this isn’t about me, you know.

JP Flores (he/him): Right, right. Yeah.

Dr. Raven Baxter: And, my interest in science. Although I was, I found out I was afraid of heights, it was- I wouldn’t have got to space camp had I not been interested in space, and that was influenced by a telescope. And I found out, like, just through talking to people in our community, that a lot of scientists, whether they’re in the space industry or not, their journeys actually started with the telescope. But I was like “Dang. So we need to get these kids some freaking telescopes then!”

JP Flores (he/him): Yeah. I think another thing, too, is you mentioned the having platforms aspect of all this, you know, social media and all that. But another big thing that I think we’re gonna have to- a lot of people are gonna have to tackle is the- the problem of misinformation. Right? The infodemic.

Do you have any ideas? From your experiences and perspectives on- on how to even deal with that, right? Like, social media is amazing because it’s given me, for example, the ability to network, you know, learn about new things. But it’s also kind of brutal on the mental health sometimes. Especially when you see, like bots and stuff, you know, attacking people you really admire like people, you know, spreading misinformation. So what are your thoughts on all of that. How do you- how do you combat- how do you combat an infodemic?

Dr. Raven Baxter: I think that community is so important. And I think it’s very underestimated because I think people forget, like what communities used to be. You know, before we had computers. I’m talking like I was there. I wasn’t. Ha ha! Bye, bye.

JP Flores (he/him): Ha ha!

Dr. Raven Baxter: But I would assume that before we had computers like we would just talk to each other, right? And if there was knowledge we would go to a central, a central source of information and figure that out. And now we have social media, but we don’t have that same community structure. People can kind of just go wherever they please to get their information, which is fine. However, if they don’t feel like they’re a part of a community, then they’ll really just go anywhere. Or like- or if there aren’t people in their communities that have the accurate information, then, yeah, they’re checking in with people that they trust. But the people that they trust don’t have the right information. So like, that’s- that’s one reason why I’m pissed that a lot of scientists, there was like a mass exodus of scientists from Twitter.

JP Flores (he/him): Yeah.

Dr. Raven Baxter: When Elon took over and did his thing, and all the scientists were like trying to stick it to him by leaving. And I’m like, you guys really set us back.

JP Flores (he/him): I agree.

Dr. Raven Baxter: Because this is where like information goes viral like it goes viral. On Facebook, it goes viral on Twitter. People are abandoning these platforms and silo siloing themselves into other spaces that aren’t accessible like the everyday person is not gonna follow you to mastodon. They’re not gonna be on blue sky. They’re gonna stay there ass on Twitter.

JP Flores (he/him): Yep.

Dr. Raven Baxter: And like, consume whatever information is there. And so, you know, I think, oh, my God! I forgot that they answer the question. But oh, yeah, misinformation. So making- scientists need to-. I mean, we’re talking about scientific misinformation and disinformation. We didn’t- we need to make ourselves accessible, period. We can’t combat the information if we’re not on the platform. Um, and then we need to learn how to communicate. So, we- if we’re- even if we’re on the platform, we can’t just go back and forth and argue with people. You need to understand where people are coming from with the information that they do have, because sometimes it’s just a matter of hearing somebody out and figuring out, “Okay, well, some of these things that they understand are actually true. But it’s this one key point that I need to address and have a conversation with them about.” Right? It’s just- it’s- I- I have a lot of- a lot of opinions.

JP Flores (he/him): Oh, I love each and every one of them. I- I agree. I wholeheartedly agree. Yeah.

Dr. Raven Baxter: Thank you. I- I just don’t want to like, go on and on and on. I- cause I really could. But that’s- I’m gonna stop there and say, like conversation is an art. And if you believe in fighting the- this infodemic, I guess you could say, then, that you need to- you need to strengthen your skillset. Like this, is we- we might not be you know, going to war literally like up in arms, but like, so- but we do need to get our tools and our weapons together like our skills. We need to- you- like- we- and it’s accessible like, read a book.

JP Flores (he/him): That’s awesome.

Dr. Raven Baxter: You what I mean.

JP Flores (he/him): Listen to the Life of Science.

Dr. Raven Baxter: For real.

JP Flores (he/him): Yeah, no, I- I understand all the hype like I- I saw your- your- you gave a talk at UNC I wanna say, like 2 years ago. I think it’s the first year as a grad student here.

Dr. Raven Baxter: Oh my gosh.

JP Flores (he/him): And I was like blown away. And I was like “Man. I really wish I can get, you know, Raven, on the podcast.” And hopefully, you’d be open to- to coming back, either virtually or even in person, and I think we- we’d be more than happy to- to have you here. But-

Dr. Raven Baxter: I would love to. Yeah, I would also say, like UNC Chapel Hill has been super supportive of me. Ever since I’ve started this journey. So shout out to you guys, and I do feel like you all have been very, um, much more advanced, I think, than a lot of other institutions in prioritizing teaching science, communication.

JP Flores (he/him): I think it’s the personnel.

Dr. Raven Baxter: Yeah.

JP Flores (he/him): Faculty and all those. Yeah.

Dr. Raven Baxter: Yes. Yeah.

JP Flores (he/him): [Inaudible] we’re in the community. Yeah, alright. So I have a couple of more fun questions. The first one being, how does one become a Forbes 30 under 30 and 40 under 40, right? Like, how does- how do you even do that? You’re getting invited to do Ted talks like, is it just an email? Is it almost like, you know, you’re just getting in a random email that’s like, “Yo, can you come do this? Or Yo? We just- we’re just naming you to a list” like how the heck does that work?

Dr. Raven Baxter: That’s literally it. Yeah, I was blown away. And the thing was, I set the intention. I was like, yeah, by the time I’m 30 I want to be on Forbes 30 under 30. And I just kept going until, like, I kept thinking, “Okay, what do I have to do like, what- what- what level of work do I need to achieve that would be worthy of that?” And I set those goals and I- I exceeded them. And I guess they just were like, “Yeah.”

JP Flores (he/him): You are such a badass, that’s so sick.

Dr. Raven Baxter: I do- I do think that you have to be nominated, though I do think that there’s a nomination process. But I honestly don’t know because I was just- I just received the emails and be like, “Damn. Really, me?”

JP Flores (he/him): Like, am I dreaming right now? Cool. No. Yeah. I thought, there’s like some complex answer that you’re gonna have. I didn’t realize there’s just gonna be an email like.

Dr. Raven Baxter: I mean, but I would say, like, exactly what I just said about setting intentions and setting goals. I can’t emphasize enough like how important that is because you really have to believe that it’s happening. Like there- even it- I felt- I felt insane, like when I was 26. I was like, “Yeah, by the time I’m 30, I wanna be on Forbes 30 under 30.” I’m like, “How the hell am I gonna do that?” It- it happened. It just happened.

JP Flores (he/him): Yeah, when did you decide that? After- after the leaving the drug discovery stuff? Or like, when did you want to do that?

Dr. Raven Baxter: Yep. Yep it was after- after I left. So there- there was a huge like – is the word paradigm shift? I’m not sure if that’s –.

JP Flores (he/him): It sounds smart.

Dr. Raven Baxter: I- I’m not sure personal, like, I guess, perception shift, I should say, after I left that job. Indirect discovery. It was kind of a non-traditional pivot. You know, for the first pivot, nontraditional was like leaving and going into biotech and then leaving the biotech job and going to education. I was like, “Oh, we’re really, like, we’re really pivoting.” And once you pivot that many times, and like in those diverse directions, things don’t- things don’t seem so far fetched. So yeah, it wasn’t really until I kind of forced myself out of the box, did I imagine these possibilities.

JP Flores (he/him): That’s wild. Well, we’re coming at the- to the end of the hour, so I’ll just say one more- I’ll just ask one more question. Let’s say we defeat this infodemic. All the homies are back on Twitter.

Dr. Raven Baxter: Yes!

JP Flores (he/him): What song are you bumping in your car? And why?

Dr. Raven Baxter: Dude. Don’t say it. This is gonna be so bad.

JP Flores (he/him): What song? What song?

Dr. Raven Baxter: So… It’s not even a song. Have you been- have you been keeping up with the Kendrick and Drake beef?

JP Flores (he/him): Why did I know that I was gonna get brought up in this? I- I didn’t know this, but yes, I have. Yes, I have, of course, of course.

Dr. Raven Baxter: So I don’t know like. [inaudible laughter]

JP Flores (he/him): This has been like so wild like, I, just, I feel like, if I was okay- my- yeah, I shouldn’t say this. I feel like- if I was Drake, I just wouldn’t be able to breathe right now. Like I like- I just don’t know what I’d do with myself. You know what I mean? Like, what do you even do?

Dr. Raven Baxter: He’s putting up a good fight like I’m proud of him for not giving up. But, like dude, this is hard to watch, like…

JP Flores (he/him): It’s Kendrick. He’s a Pulit-, he has a Pulitzer Prize.

Dr. Raven Baxter: Exactly. What did you think you were doing?

JP Flores (he/him): [inaudible laughter] Like-

Dr. Raven Baxter: What did you think you were doing? Anyway… so, Metro Boomin, you know, the producer.

JP Flores (he/him): Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dr. Raven Baxter: He made the instrumental called BBL Drizzi. I would- I would have that instrumental on repeat. It’s- it’s actually really good, but it’s very disrespectful, and I- you know, it’s rap.

JP Flores (he/him): Yeah. I love that so much. Yeah. Man, that was the fastest hour of my life.

Dr. Raven Baxter: Right? This was great. I can’t wait to share this episode with everyone.

JP Flores (he/him): Yeah, this is fun. Yeah, but I again- I don’t wanna take up too much of your time. It’s 4 pm on a Monday. I do wanna thank you again so much for- for agreeing to come on. This has been really fun. And I’m just- yeah, if you ever need a graduate student or someone. That’s yeah. If you ever need a perspective like mine, just let me know, and I’ll- I’m- I’ll be there.

Dr. Raven Baxter: Absolutely.

JP Flores (he/him): I’m already such a big fan so.

Dr. Raven Baxter: We’ve connected, so now you’re in my circle. I’ll definitely keep in touch if there’s anything that comes to mind. But yeah and- and same for you, you know, if there’s- if there’s anything that comes up and you think of me like, please don’t hesitate to reach out.

JP Flores (he/him): Definitely. We’ll definitely get you out here for- for a talk or something at UNC.

Dr. Raven Baxter: I would actually love that I’ve got family in North-. Actually, my whole family is in North Carolina.

JP Flores (he/him): Perfect. Perfect.

Dr. Raven Baxter: So it’s just- it’s not out of the way at all.

JP Flores (he/him): Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Raven. This has been a fucking blast, and and [inaudible].

Dr. Raven Baxter: Yes. Thank you. Have a good day.

JP Flores (he/him): Yeah, take a make sure you get that- or keep an eye out for that Starbucks gift card. I got you.

Dr. Raven Baxter: Okay. Alright, I’ll- I’ll take it. I’ll take it. Thank you.

JP Flores (he/him): Yeah, bye, Raven, have a good one.

Dr. Raven Baxter: Bye.

JP Flores (he/him): Oh, man!