Empowering the next generation of Hispanic/Latinx Scientists: Dr. Tina Termini

When Doris (formerly UNC PREP Postbac Scholar, Currently University of Michigan PhD student) was applying to graduate school, JP connected her with Dr. Christina Termini, the creator of the List of 100 Inspiring Hispanic/Latinx Scientists. In this conversation, we mentioned expanding that list, and thus the #LatinxAtlas was born!

Check out the original list of 100 Inspiring Hispanic/Latinx Scientists ⁠here⁠, and check out the #LatinxAtlas, housed by the Fred Hutch Cancer Center ⁠here⁠!

Transcription

Transcribed by Carolina Gomez Casas (she/her)

JP: Alright, it’s recording. Yeah. So, I’m really excited to get this interview started, Tina. So, can you tell us about yourself again? I know you’ve had quite the journey going from the University of Maryland to the University of New Mexico. But can you fill in the blanks for us. Can you walk us through the scientific journey? In a little more detail?

T: Yeah. Thanks again for having me on. It’s a pleasure to be here, and an honor to be among so many incredible guests. My journey is not at all linear. It’s been you know a bit jumbled, and very much an indirect path into science. And I think that’s actually pretty, you know familiar for a lot of people. So, I grew up in Maryland and I studied music for most of my life. And I. Yes, I play the flute, and I always dreamed of being a professional musician, and that was the goal. That was the end goal. You know. I studied for 9 years as a kid, and then went to undergrad for music. You know I auditioned. I was accepted into the University of Maryland School of Music. I got a scholarship, that was it. It was, you know. That was what I wanted to do. So, I am not a straight shot to science by any means, so I studied music, and that was probably my first real strong mentoring relationship was with music teachers and a lot of the ways that I mentor students now is based on you know that one on one relationship that you have with your private music instructor. (MENTORSHIP) And I was pretty good. I think I was pretty good. But my, you know, that’s that, said something. But my flute professor sat me down after my first semester, and was very serious with me, and very intent on not limiting my opportunities while I was there. He sat me down and said, you know, listen. This is a really challenging field, and based on where you are right now. I don’t see you making it. Yeah, so that you know. Obviously, I was super sad and upset, and I felt defeated, and all these things, but I think he really was coming at me from the standpoint of a mentor and trying to help me because he was saying, listen, you’re here on scholarship. What else do you like? You know I’ll support you in whatever other things that you might want to do, just so that you have kind of an insurance policy in case this doesn’t go according to plan. So, I said, you know, I really liked biology when I was growing up. I had this amazing biology teacher, Miss Miller, who just got me so hype about like transcription and translation. And she was the best. So, I decided, alright. Let’s do some biology and take some classes and see how it goes. You know I did pretty well, and then, like many of us, PhD seekers and scientists, I then thought that the only career option was to go to medical school. So, you know, one of my uncle is a doctor, so I was like, well, he did it. Let me talk to him. Let me see what it’s all about. And obviously he was like, yeah, go be a cardiologist and I just kind of believed that because I didn’t have any other perspective. So, I was pre-med, I mean, I applied to Med school. I took the MCAT. I did the whole thing, but because of that, I did some research, and I got to work in a lab for a summer and through, you know, an amazing summer undergrad research program which exposed me to that possibility. And I was like, hey, this is actually kind of cool. I like the independence that I have here, and it’s fun to you know, do research and discover and kind of tackle these different problems. And that’s it. What ended up saving me was that experience, because I ended up applying to medical school. I applied to graduate school, and I applied to research tech jobs. I had no clue. What I was doing. I had no clue. I was just like I’m just going to throw everything out there and see what sticks. And I ended up getting into one PhD program at the University of New Mexico, and I went. And the rest is kind of history. I just kept going.

D: Wow. That’s awesome.

JP: Yeah, Doris, I think you could correct me if I’m wrong. Doris is cracking up because she mentioned I’m a performer and earlier performer earlier, and I play music as well. I mean I’m not. I’m not as good as you are, probably because I didn’t go to school (inaudible).

T: Ok you don’t know, I’m not good anymore, I was good but now I am just a good scientist

JP: Yeah. But Doris went to one of my shows the other weekend. I do a lot of like bluegrass indie stuff. So that’s why Doris was like, wait.

D: I think of scientist using both sides of the brain right and left and a lot of us do music or performing arts somehow.

T: Yeah, I think music and also sports are extremely helpful for training people for the lab. I think about music a lot when I’m in the lab and the ways that I learn and the amount of discipline. I mean. I think of my first private lesson with this professor that I had, and he’s super intense, like he’s old school, hardcore, legit. The first lesson I had this piece that I was working on, and he only let me get through one measure of it for an hour. It was one measure, and I just was repeating it and changing this, and I couldn’t go a tick on the metronome faster until I had done it 10 times perfectly. And he was. He was. It was super disciplined. But he was like, this is how you need to practice. And I think about that a lot, because he wasn’t just teaching me what to do. But he was teaching me how to teach myself what to do.

JP: Right, right. Yeah, yes, I played baseball in Occidental, and that that was it. Like sports taught me discipline. Music taught me creativity, and now I get to blend everything in science.

T: Amazing

JP: But that reminds me of whiplash, the movie whiplash,

T: I don’t think I’ve seen that, what is that?

JP: You should watch it, I think [inaudible]

D: You said that you have moved around a lot for school from Maryland to New Mexico, and now Washington. How have you found your community throughout all these places? How have you found your people?

T: It’s really challenging. As scientists we are often just bouncing around from place to place, and it’s hard to settle in. So, I, you know a lot of my friends are other scientists and a lot of my support system are other scientists who are more than just colleagues, they are friends as well. I will say one thing that was extremely valuable, especially during the pandemic, to me was the community that I found on Twitter. Social media creates so much visibility and capacity for us to share these experiences that are often overlapping and not so unique as we think they are. And that’s been key. I mean, I think, about all the people that I chat with on social media and check in with. That is where a lot of my community comes from. And I’m so lucky to have those people, and that, you know people like Aj Hinton kind of took me in and shared his network with me. And I’m able to, you know, check in with these people when I need to. Even though they’re not here physically. (SUPPORT SYSTEM)

JP: Yeah. I mean, I mean, that’s how I found out about you right is through social media. And you just ended up saying so many helpful things when I was, you know, starting my graduate school career. And it’s funny, because when Doris joined the lab and was mentioning trying to apply, I would like, Oh, my gosh! There’s this person on Twitter. I haven’t like. Maybe I’ve talked to her. I don’t think I have. I might have. I’m not sure her name’s Tina’s from [Inaudible] like you should send her an email. She’s at Fred Hutch. See what happens. And you replied. pretty fast. And I was like, Well, I’m glad I’m glad I did that. And you know, here we are. Right?

T: Yeah, I mean, it’s amazing. I get emails from strangers often. And I keep them in a special folder. Either people saying like, Hey, identify with what you say or Hey, can you know I’m going through something? Do you think I could meet with you just for like a short phone call to just either chat or you know vent or whatever, and I’ll make time for it if I can. It’s you know it’s one of those things where sometimes people don’t have end to turn to. And if we can be, you know, available to help them through a challenging time, like, I’ll do it.

JP: Yeah, definitely. Have you, have you ever thought about organizing a conference with all the social media people and just being like, let’s all meet in Austin, Texas and talk about mentorship and science.

T: Oh, my goodness! That would be the dream I mean, I call them the Tweet Ups are when, like there is a conference, and all of us Twitter peeps are informally meeting up. But yeah, if we had a formal, you know, Tweet up mentoring forum. I would. I mean, that would be so fun. Yeah, because I mean, there’s so many heavy hitters on Twitter, too, that are just like doing the most. So usually when we’re going to conferences, I’m like, Hey, I’m gonna be here. Who’s gonna be here? Where can we get a table for 20. Yeah.

JP: So, what have you learned the most from these people? As it pertains to your you know your mentoring style right? Because you have so many different people across the country, probably giving you advice, maybe exemplary cases, cautionary tales like, what are what have been your biggest takeaways as a mentor.

T: Yeah, I think my biggest takeaway is just because you’re a mentor doesn’t mean that, you know it all, and also that you’re gonna still get it wrong sometimes. And it’s nice to have somebody to talk to when you do get it wrong to work through it so that you can make sure you get it right, and then also not constantly blame yourself like we’re going to make mistakes. (MENTORSHIP) Think when I was a grad student. You know, I idolize my mentor, my PhD Adviser, Jen Gillette. She’s just. She’s incredible. But I saw her as a superhero. That kind of never made mistakes, and I feel like I put her on this impossible pedestal, too, of well, she knows everything. She’s the PI, she’s my mentor. She knows all the stuff. And now, being in this position, I’m like, I don’t really know all the stuff. I don’t even know half the time what’s coming with the data right? Like the project is one thing where we’re still figuring it out as we go. But with the interactions with people like, yes, I am qualified to do what I’m doing. But I’m still gonna make mistakes, and I think being able to talk to people either from social media or my colleagues or whatnot when you don’t get it right to make sure that you do get it right the next time, and then also educate each other about what could you know these cautionary tales of what could go wrong. It’s so important because people kind of sweep it under the rug. And then the same mistakes get made. And that’s not fair.

JP: Yeah. Before Doris asks a question I did want to ask. So have you had a conversation with your PhD. Advisor about that? Just how like you idolize her, and now you are a PI and you are kind of like. Wait a minute. Were you dealing with this when I was in your lab?

T: I don’t even think, I don’t even think I would need to tell her, because she I mean she put up a really strong front at all times. She never let us see when the chaos was brewing. Yeah, I’ve never. I’ve never said that to her, but she’s coming to visit Fred Hutch in like a month. So maybe maybe we’ll have a chat. Yeah, it’s hard. Because then, you know. I think we’re all we’re all kind of learning, I think, especially for new pis. It’s you can take as many courses as you want, and men mentor as many people as you want, but everybody’s still a little different, so you can’t, really. It’s something that has to be learned on the job. And also you have to take hold yourself accountable, because if you don’t hold yourself accountable and say, Hey, that was not ideal. What can I do better then, you know? You’re just gonna keep making the same mistakes.

D: In those 70 podcasts, you mentioned the importance of having multiple mentors, and how critical that base for any career. How do you think this can be issued while being in multiple places. And for example, me, going to a new institution, how do you do this.

T: Yeah, I think it’s great. it’s a, great and really, it’s a really important part of being a mentee and taking control of your own journey, is having a lot of mentors who you trust and who meet different needs so like your current advisor in your program. Now, that’s a person that hopefully will continue to be a mentor in some capacity. They’re not going to be scientific mentors, but it’s somebody that you can check in with every you know, 6 months or so. And just say, Hey, can I? Can we do like phone call or zoom call and just love to check in and kind of chat about how things are going. And I think with virtual capacity. And just I mean, we have telephones. You can just pick up the phone so you can. You can chat with people and kind of check in. And I think that’s more valuable than anything (MENTORSHIP) (SUPPORT SYSTEM) Like this week. I already had a phone call with a mentor that I started working with in 2019. But they’re not my scientific mentor by any means like they don’t provide any sort of mentorship on the actual product projects that I’m you know, leading, or that I have been leading their role has really always been on the career development front and transitioning to independence. And all of these different kind of complex situations moving from Postdoc to Professor and that’s the person that I call, and I haven’t spoken to this person in like at least a year. But I just reached out and said, Hey, I’m going through this thing, can we chat? And they picked up the phone and we had a nice, you know, 20¬†min conversation, and came to some, help me kind of work through what? What next steps were. And I think that’s the key. So you wanna keep those people around and and building your mentoring network is something that people should think about as they’re moving ahead. You might not realize that somebody’s your mentor until you leave a certain situation. Yeah? And like your peer managers are, are so key. Those are the people that end up having a lot of advice room, you know, they just went through something that you’re about to embark on picking those brains is really gonna be helpful. So you know, it’s not just about the people that are in these, you know. positions of power and whatnot. Sometimes it’s just somebody who’s on the ground. Who’s just gone through what you went through.

JP: We should do. We should do a follow up for Tina every 6 months. Hey? Do you wanna hop on another episode?

T: That’s fine. We can do it. We can set it up. Add it to my calendar. It’s on my calendar.

D: The next question I have here for you is, as a Hispanic first-generation woman in stem. Sometimes I feel like, oh, most of the time that I don’t belong. And like that, that old imposter syndrome kicks in. How do you as a mentor, navigate this for people like me? Do you think about that when you have mentees that have been like that have gone through that are in the position that I’m at.

T: Yeah, yes, all of it. And I think it’s kind of like interesting in in a lot of ways. Psychologically. I’m better at hyping somebody else up and making them feel like they belong than I am at doing it to myself. So even if I’m having a terrible day or feeling like I don’t belong, and I’m not valued. And all these things that somehow doesn’t stop me from speaking to the people in my lab validating their ideas. you know, providing them with the feedback that they need the support that they need, and making sure that they know they’re on the right track. So yeah, it’s really interesting that I’m much better at supporting others than supporting myself. But I think that’s just part of the challenge, which is, again, why, it’s really important to have a strong network of people who do support you, because sometimes you just need someone to build you up and be like, you got this like, you’re on the right track. What can I do to help? So yeah, I mean a lot of the people that come through my lab are from disadvantaged backgrounds, and you have to take special care to recognize. Hey, there are different psychological barriers that these scientists have to overcome to you know, convince themselves sometimes that they are absolutely necessary parts of the scientific enterprise. They’re needed. They’re intelligent. They’re doing amazing cutting-edge research. And yeah, it’s a challenge.

JP: Yeah, sure. How does how have you navigated the imposter syndrome as students cause I think now it seems like you know, you have a support system as a faculty member, but I don’t know what your experience was like in graduate school. But how did you navigate it there? I’m assuming your mentor had to had to play a role in that. But did you also have to tell yourself? No, you know what like. I’m a badass. It’s fine like I’m getting a PhD.

T: Right? Yeah, I mean, yeah. My mentor definitely was such a positive light. And provided me with a lot of support and like. celebrated all those victories with me, but also pushed me in a lot of ways that I needed to be pushed so their support definitely helped. It was interesting, though, when you, when you bring up the graduate school for me, was such a different environment than anything I’ve ever been at, because I was at the University of New Mexico, which is a Hispanic serving institution. And I think, like 50% of the students are first Gen. That are undergrads. And I would imagine it’s similar at the graduate level as well. So, in that environment I was like, yes, let’s do this like, let’s go. Everyone, you know, kind of had a different vibe than at other environments that I’ve been at, which have been a lot more homogeneous and exclusionary. So, I actually love the fact that I went to UNM, and I think it was the best thing that I could have possibly done for them from the standpoint that it that environment gave me the support that I needed to thrive. I think like 80% of my PhD program was women, too. So, I didn’t really. Yeah. I didn’t really feel as much of the exclusion when I was there. (EXPOSURE) But when I would go other places like for a conference or a course or a meeting. Then I was like, Oh, shit like, not in Kansas anymore. Or, yeah, yeah, I mean, it was kind. It was. That’s when I would feel it. And I was like, alright. It was a good reality check, because, you know, some people do leave comfortable environments and then have a really challenging time with it. I was very aware of what I was going to be up against, but that didn’t make it any easier, but at least I knew what was going to happen.

JP: Yeah, so did you feel in the immediate co, I guess. Culture shock, maybe for lack of better. Where is? Did you feel culture shock when you went to UCLA? Because I feel like things from LA, it’s pretty diverse. But I would imagine the institution itself still very homogeneous. Right?

T: Yeah, I think the institution is one thing. But it really Matt, your lab, environment and your scientific environments matter a lot. So yeah, it was really challenging. Is very challenging. I was the only minority postdoc in my lab. Actually, I think the only minority trainee in the lab. So that was hard for a lot of years. But again, I had these external networks that, thank goodness, we’re there to help me through some of these things, and I always knew I could go to them with some of the issues that I was facing. So yeah, I wouldn’t say it was a shock. What? I wasn’t shocked that I was in this in a different environment. But it was certainly, you know. A change.

JP: Yeah. Cool. Well, now that you’re at Fred Hutch, and you’re you’re seeing a system and hired as someone in power. Let’s hear the Tea. What don’t you like about the system? And how would you know? Rewrite it? What would you add? I think you know, more vehicles for supports would be one judging based off of. You know what we’ve talked about already. But is there anything that’s just like glaring to you. It’s just like, no, we need this at our institution.

T: It’s amazing that you think that I have power. I mean, I have. I guess I have more power than I once did. But yeah, I think that’s actually one of the funny things is that I thought, Oh, I’m gonna be an assistant professor like I can change everything. And it’s like, No, there’s still all these systems in place. And and you know, you have to go through the motions and all of that. So it change takes time. But yeah, I hear you. So, I mean, I think, there’s a lot of space for improvement on the front of faculty. Diversity. You know, as you move up in the ranks you can see it just kind of dwindles. So there’s a lot of space for not just recruiting diverse faculty, but ensuring that they are supported not just financially, not just, you know, space wise, but truly integrated into scientific communities. And I think that’s really important on the faculty front. We have a lot of systems here for supporting trainees. But we just need to make sure that faculty are also integrated, because if you lose the faculty, then you lose the lab. You know, and you lose everything. So it’s a big effect.

JP: Yeah, real quick, can I ask about the difference between Fred Hutch and University of Washington. Because I know Fred, I guess Fred is part of UW? Or is it like its own separate entity? How does that work? Yeah.

T: Good question. So, Fred Hutch is a standalone cancer research center. So it’s kind of like.

JP: Its like Sloan Kettering?

T: Yes, exactly. It’s like Sloan Kettering. So it’s we’re still system professors. We all have joint appointments with the University of Washington. So that’s why, we’re still affiliated with graduate programs.

JP: Gotcha.

T: Yeah, I was actually very worried about that when I was considering coming here because I had always envisioned myself being in an academic institution. But it really, it doesn’t feel any different. You know, we still have graduate students, post docs, trainees, all of all of the above. It’s just a kind of a smaller community which I actually really like.

JP: Do you have to like teach at all? Or, no, yeah, I’m assuming. Not if you’re at the cancer center, right? Or maybe you do not have.

T: I don’t have to teach, but I can teach so it’s kind of cool, because it’s on your own terms. How much teaching you do. So you know, you can really take. Yeah, you can take care with. You know what you know you have going on, how much capacity you really have, and also what are you really passionate about teaching? Because we all love passionate teachers.

JP: Yes, exactly cool. So we have one more question before we move into some of the fun questions. But can you tell us more about the 100 inspiring Hispanic Latinx scientists in America list? I know that you sent it to Doris like, how did it come to be? How’d you get it together, what has come out of it? And I think Doris had another question about that, right?

D: Are you going to be publishing? And you’d listen, if they gonna be larger, are there bigger numbers there?

T: There’s a lot more people that we need to highlight. I agree with that. So that was, that’s right. That’s right. Yeah, no, we it was a group of us that all got together Twitter pals, of course, and decided that we wanted to do something similar to what Dr. Hinton had pioneered with the 100 100 more and 1,000 black scientists lists that he had published. So we decided, you know, why not do something similar in honor of Hispanic heritage month? And we just put together a list based on, you know, some of the outstanding scientists that we know. Also taking care to highlight scientists who are also doing work to create more inclusive scientific environments. Not just we’re not just glorifying the science. We are also really paying tribute to people who are also working to make research more habitable for all. So we got together, and we created a list. And it had a really positive reaction. I think it was. It was really I felt like a celebration the day that it came out. It felt so. I was so happy. It was. The response was incredible. And I think it’s one of those situations or those movements such as creates visibility. So, it’s a really easy tool to just send around and say, Hey, if someone says, Hey can’t find any speakers. Here’s a list of 100 people you could invite. So, I think you know, it’s the positive it’s had a really positive response in that front, and also for educators as well. You know, a lot of courses. Now, highlight diverse scientists is a key component of the courses and students will do projects on these amazing scientists who are from different backgrounds. So it’s a nice way to just have a list and say, Hey. here’s 100 of them pick one and really dig into what they’re up to. So as far as we’re gonna do another list. I we don’t know. But if someone wants to help, Doris, we can make it happen.

D: Ill reach out.

JP: That’s so funny, in the group chat, I was just telling her about it, Doris it would be could if you could do that. I had the thought when you mentioned the list, invite everyone I am interviewing give a talk to you. I literally looked at Doris. I was like, Wait, yeah, cause II because a lot of a lot of my lab, we do. We’re very involved in our department, and I think my next venture is gonna be joining the seminar speaker committee. And it’s like, Wait, I was like, literally like I have. I could easily. Just do. Yeah. Anyways, yeah. So a lot of our listeners are, you know, high schoolers, undergrads, grad students, post docs, faculty. I’m even having faculty interview people with me, post docs, friends. But do you have anything that you’d want to say to the broader public at all about who you are, or like, you know, the legacy you want to leave on science. Anything like that? [inaudible]

T: Yeah, I would say a piece of advice is to gosh. Well, what am I going to say, well, I do think that my legacy scientifically, I’m not really interested in like leaving a scientific legacy. I’m more interested in training capable scientists who will put forth, you know, inclusivity like, at the forefront of their research. So I do think of the people that I’m fortunate to work with what they do next. I think of that as or enabling them to do what they do next. That is the legacy that I want to leave like. Do people leave my lab and sure we’re gonna make discoveries. Yes, like, I am an awesome scientist, by the way, but are they confident? Are they able to do what they are setting out to do? Are they able to achieve their goals? That to me is success. But you know. we’re doing it through the lens of science. That’s the that’s the vessel to get there is the research.

JP: Yeah. Hold the fort down. Wait for us to become hold the fort down, please, I know. Hold the port down when we leave it.

T: The doors open, I put a huge door stop on it, I actually check {inaduble} the door off the hinges.

JP: {Inaudible}

D: What is your favorite type of food? And why

T: So? This? Oh, yes, New Mexican, New Mexican food, and my number one favorite food is green Chili cheese fries, so French fries. Green Chili sauce, so spicy, so roasty, so flavorful and cheese. So I’ve got a trip plan to New Mexico next week, and I’m very much looking forward to that and breakfast burritos.

JP: Yeah, that’s what I was going to ask from New Mexico or Seattle?

T: No, New Mexico. The green chilies here taste like green bell peppers. No offense. Have you guys ever had New Mexican food?

D: Not New Mexican

JP: I don’t know, I don’t think so. Maybe we should plan a conference there

T: It is like TexMex, but a little different

D: I do have a friend who is Mexican, her mum ruined me, because I had the best salsa in her house and now, I go to the restaurants and is not the same.

T: Yeah, I think we have 20 pounds of green chili in our freezer. Every fall the chi8lli is harvested from hatch, New Mexico. So they harvest them. They put them in this big roaster. You buy the chilies, and they roast them with a blowtorch and kind of just get them all the way roasted, and then you take them. You take the seeds out if you don’t want it spicy, and and you peel them and chop it all up, and then I just have all aliquot in our freezer so that we can tap into the special sauce when we need it. But we’re we ration it, though, you know.

JP: That’s awesome.

D: Its fun that you had it this year {inaudible}

JP: Oh, yeah. But before we move on to that question. Where is UNM? Is that Albuquerque? Or is that Santa Fe?

T: Yeah, it is in Albuquerque.

JP: So the next question is, what’s your relationship with music and dance like, what type of music do you listen to? Do you dance at all Doris does. That’s why I asked Doris.

D: I am a dancer, I dance salsa, bachata, and all the Latin dances. I am part of the team here at UNC, I am hoping to find that wherever I go.

T: You gotta find good salsa bars wherever you end up. I listen to a mix of music. I like to sing, so I also am a singer. Yes, so I like the divas, because I like to belt in my car. So that’s a big one like I mean. Honestly, my favorite artists are Kelly Clarkson, and I love Taylor Swift, but I also like I don’t know. It just depends on the day like I was listening to Beyonce on my way here. 6 and Shields is like my jam like when I need to pump myself up like. That’s my song. I always joke that if I could do like music when I’m going to give a talk like that’s the song I want to play. But I also listen to a lot of classical. So, like yesterday, I was feeling really moody. So, I was listening to Tchaikovsky symphonies. So, it just depends. Yeah. But I’m not a good dancer, I mean, I like to dance, but it’s not something that people want to see. Yeah.

JP: So you’re in Seattle, I mean, I’m thinking, cause. That’s for the Fred Hutches. What do you do outside of science? Do you hike a lot like, what are your hobbies outside of being, you know, girl boss scientist.

T: Yes, so I am kind of an anomaly in Seattle because I’m an endorsement. I don’t really like to go outside. So I’m just being honest. I like to socialize with friends, and, you know, go find a new place to eat or drink, and just, you know, find the good food and drink in Seattle. I hang out with my husband. He’s the best, and we have 2 cats. We play Badminton, so we have a big concrete slab in our backyard, and we decided to make it into a Badminton court. I had never played before. It sounds like II don’t want you thinking that I’m some like country club, whatever. I was just like, what about Badminton? Like a really like low impact sport for someone like me. So that’s a fun thing that we do. As well.

JP: No pickle ball you ever hit the pickle.

T: So we have the pickle ball. Yes, we have pickle ball capacity, but I’m better at Badminton, and I really like picking my husband’s ass because he’s like the 6 foot 2 athletic dude. So I’m like, Yeah, do you have the agility of a like 5 foot 2 like little scrappy lady?

D: What about what about books? Do you read other things outside of science? Are you a reader?

T: Yeah, I read comedy books. So I just finish like Tom Segura’s book, which is hilarious. And I finished the Seth Rogan book, which is also hilarious. Like all the Chelsea Handler books, I like to laugh like I actually really do love comedy. I haven’t gone to any comedy here. But I listen to comedy podcasts like when I’m eating my lunch in my office alone, I’m listening to comedy and just laughing alone, which probably looks crazy. But like that is my 15¬†min where I’m just like cracking up. Okay? So that’s what gets me through the days. So yes, I love reading comedy books. If you ever want a good laugh like I will be laughing, crying with some of these stories, and that’s that’s life is too serious. I need jokes all the time.

JP: I am learning so much, I didn’t realize comedy books or comedy podcasts where such a thing.

T: Yeah, I’m gonna send you some recommendations legitimately. The Tom Cigar book just like killed me. I was like this too much.

JP: Yeah, cause I only read like philosophy, like critical theory books. And I’m like, I need like, I need to stop this. But then I can’t venture too much into fiction. And I’m like, Oh, wait! Comedy sounds like a great, a lot of them are just like hilarious stories. Yeah, I feel like I always joke that like I would have.

T: A lot of them are hilarious stories. But I feel like I always joke, I mean, I would have been awful at it. But I’m like if I wasn’t a scientist I’d be a stand up comedian, because I like have these little like scientific stories that I think are hilarious, but obviously what not. They would not think. It’s funny, like the story about the microscope stage like or the eyepiece is not being there when my microscope was delivered like things like that, like that’s not funny to the general public, but scientifically, it could be.

JP: What if you made a science podcast, science comedy, podcast.

T: I don’t know. I mean, do we need that?

D: The funniest stories of whatever happened in your lab.

T: Next time I get invited to give a talk, I am actually going to give a 10 min bit. {Inaudible} Literally, when I ordered my microscope for my lab. Probably one of the funniest things that happened was that it showed up. This is like a $40,000 microscope. It showed up big old crate. I’m all excited. I’m unpacking it. There was no light source, and I was like, Wait. I like I started to question everything like do microscopes usually come with a light source like a light microscope like is this, did I order it like, did I? Do I even know how to use a microscope like I went through this whole thing, and then I was like, no, I ordered it. There should be a light, and you can’t do light microscopy without a light. So it’s just it’s this whole thing. Yeah.

JP: Did you know how organized Tina is in her lab? Are we going to show or lab? Because it’s so messy.

D: How do you know this?

JP: Because of social media.

T: Yeah, I share. Yeah, I share my life. Thank you. I love it. And It’s my little fun sometimes when I’m procrastinating, and I’m like I can’t work on this grant. Right now. My brain is exploding. I’ll go into the lab and just like. organize a drawer. They’re like Tina. Tina’s having a moment. Just let her be. Just let her do a thing. She’s emptying a drawer. She’s probably going through something.

D: I like cleaning when I’m stressed, too. I understand that.

T: Yeah, sometimes you just gotta decompress.

JP: Well, do you have any more questions? Because that’s that’s all I had.

D: I think we’re good.

JP: Yeah. Tina. Thank you so much.

D: Thank you, it was really fun!

JP: Doris was stressed, she was like I’m nervous. I don’t know what to do. And I’m like, it’s literally just a conversation.

T: Yeah, we are just chatting

JP: Yeah, that’s really all it is now.

D: Now I will start my own podcast.

JP: We can partner

T: You can have from where does it STEM and from where did it STEM?

JP: Oh, that’s good. And then you just yeah, that’s amazing. Yeah. But I can’t tell you how happy I am that I actually like got to meet you virtually meet you, cause I don’t know. I just been on Twitter for a long time, and it’s just like, you know, you see, people like Aj and you and like Ubada, people like that. And it’s like, Huh. like, I really want to be a part of that. But I’m not technically at their career stage. So I get why it’s not too relatable. But I want to get there at some point.

D: It can be intimidating at times

JP: It can be intimidating for sure.

T: But {inaudible} It takes the intimidation out. We’re all just liking and clicking and type, and everybody is the same.

JP: Yeah, exactly cool. But stand by cause we’re gonna I’m gonna try and actually invite you out here. I think it’d be really fun to host you probably in the I could try in the fall. We already have it all set up for this year. That’s why I was like we probably have to do it.

T: Don’t worry. I’m not going anywhere. Just let me know. Yes.

JP: Yeah, you can invite her at the new institution. Ill invite her at this institution. Okay, well, that we’re gonna work.

T: Yeah. I’m around. Just let me know. I’ll be happy to share some science.

D: Thank you so much

JP: Yes. Well, thank you so much for for you know, lending us your time. We really appreciate it. I’m gonna send you a little $10. Starbucks gift park gift card. Unfortunately, I’m not a, you know, big time podcast producer. So I don’t make money I don’t like adds, so that that’s why I try and do is like, I’ll like coffee or something on me. So

T: That’s so nice. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. And hope you both have a great week, and if you need anything else, let me know. Otherwise, it’s been a pleasure.

JP: It’s been a pleasure. We’ll see you soon, and have a great weekend. It was nice to meet you, too.

T: Thank you, Bye.