Rejection just means Redirection: Dr. Angeline Dukes

Angeline Dukes is a PhD candidate and neuroscientist at the University of California, Irvine. She is a proud alumnus of Fisk University and the Founder and President of Black in Neuro! We had great conversations about being a mentor and overcoming imposter syndrome. This fall, she will also be starting at the University of Minnesota School of Medicine as an Assistant Professor!

Transcription

Transcribed by Marisa Zimmerman (she/her)

JP: What’s up, y’all? It’s your host JP Flores and welcome to from where does it stem?

AD: Hi, I’m Angeline Dukes. I am currently a fifth-year PhD candidate at the University of California, Irvine. I’m a daughter of immigrants, my mom is from Trinidad, my dad is from Haiti. So, I’m a first-generation American. I’m also a first-generation college graduate. I went to Fisk University, which is a historically black College- University in Nashville, Tennessee, where I earned my bachelor’s degree in biology. Immediately after undergrad, I applied for PhD programs and luckily got accepted into UC Irvine, where I’ve been for the past few years. I’m very passionate about teaching and mentoring and outreach. I’m also the founder and president of Black in Neuro which is an international Grassroots organization dedicated to amplify and support black scholars all around the world who are interested in neuroscience.

JP: Awesome. Thanks for coming on. Fisk University. I saw that you tweeted last night about - there’s this Twitter Trend going around about PhD or ejections PhD acceptances. Like how do you feel about that? Like, what are your thoughts on science Twitter and how we’ve built like this community around science, you know, like Black in Neuroscience, things like that? How has that helped you though?

AD: Yeah. I really loved it. I think Twitter, science, Twitter in particular has been a very interesting experience. So, I didn’t actually make a science twitter until like my second or third year of grad school. I was very hesitant about it. I was just like what the classes we’re talking about on Twitter, but it’s been a really great experience. Like you said, great way to build community. That’s how black and neuro got started was because I sent out a tweet and it’s just blown up until like this, massive, wonderful organization since then, but it’s been really nice to just be able to connect with people. I really love this trend going on right now about people sharing, not just their accomplishments, but also there were sections, and some of their failures. I think sometimes we see, like, people who are, well accomplished, who are doing all these amazing things, but we don’t think about the journeys that they’ve had to go through to get there. We don’t think about the struggles that they’ve been through. We don’t think about all the rejections they had to get like that one acceptance. And so, in particular, for me, I love sharing my story because I was a college senior when I was applying, and I had no idea what I was doing.

JP: Yeah same.

AD: I was just like, yeah, you know, I mean, I guess I’ll submit some applications people are like, yeah, just apply for PHD programs and I was like what?

JP: I was like you get paid for PhDs? I didn’t know that my college –

AD: No, that was amazing to him like, oh, y’all are gonna pay me to get this sucker? Oh, that’s great. And so, I come from a low-income background so I only applied to programs that offered me a fee, waiver for the application process. And so, if anybody’s listening to this, who’s part of, you know, admissions committees and stuff, like y’all should really make sure to offer fee waivers because those applications are insanely expensive and most of us just can’t afford that, it’s just not feasible. So, I applied to, I was going to submit five applications. I had like this existential crisis the day that applications were due, and I was just like, oh, there’s no reason for me to submit these. They’re not going to accept me, I don’t have enough research experience, I don’t, you know, I’m just not prepared for this. They’re just gonna tell me no anyway, there’s no point. And I freaked out I called one of my friends and she was just like, I mean, the worst thing they can do is say no and I was like, okay, but I don’t want to hear no.

JP: It’s like applying for anything, you know. Like just apply, just send that email, just do it. Like people aren’t out to get you, you know, like people have good intentions most of the time.

AD: At least we hope so, we definitely hope so.

JP: Yeah

AD: But yeah, so I ended up submitting 4 applications. I got three interviews, which was amazing. I was absolutely shocked. Also, super surprised that like, they pay for you to fly out there and like, put you in a hotel and stuff and I was like, what is happening? I think that was like most of the traveling I had done at that point and said that was really nice. My first interview was actually here at UC Irvine, and I was so nervous, very like, just all types of jitters, all kinds of like, oh my god, I’m gonna mess this up there and I think I’m so dumb.

JP: And was that your first time in California when you went?

AD: Well, not my first time ca- first time in Irvine.

JP: Okay.

AD: Yeah, my partner is from California. So, we had come out here to visit his family before, but this is like my first time in Irvine and I was just I was all kinds of nervous, but it was really great. I felt very supported here. I felt like you know, it could be a great place for me to be the faculty routine, really supportive and nice and the students as well. And so, I was like, oh, I remember calling my then boyfriend at the time and I was like, yeah, I really like the school but there is no way they’re going to accept me.

JP: Hey, look at you now tell them you have experiments to run at UC Irvine.

AD: No, it’s been amazing. It’s just such an amazing thing. But yeah, so they accepted me. I had interviews at Washington University in St Louis and Vanderbilt. I actually did a summer research program at Vanderbilt so it was looking like I’d had a good chance to get again. And then for Wash U I was like, okay, I think this will be good. I got rejected from Wash U and then I got wait-listed for Vanderbilt for so long that like the deadline to like accept offers had passed and then they told me, I didn’t get in.

JP: I hate when they do that like, why even put me on a waitlist.

AD: You know, like it’s okay to just tell me. Don’t like let me think I have a chance to get in.

JP: Yeah, exactly.

AD: Yeah. So happy thankfully, you know, I got my one acceptance and that was really all that I needed and like I said, this was a place where I felt like it was a great place for me to be that. I could really like grow and thrive here and I’m happy to say that I have been. Like, I’m glad that I got accepted here and honestly when I think about these things looking back on it, if I had gotten in someone at the other institutions, maybe I would have gone there and I don’t think I would have had the same type of experience that I would have had here. And so, I’m glad that they rejected me in some ways. I had posted something else that was just, like, rejection is just redirection. And so, that’s really how I’ve been feeling about a lot of things in my life. It’s just you know, if you get rejected or told no from something. That’s okay. That’s just not where you’re supposed to be right now.

JP: Yeah, definitely. Yeah, and one thing I wanted to touch on that you talked about, is that feeling of support, right? And one of the things that goes into that is mentorship, right? So a lot of people talk about finding their tribes, communities, etc. What were your support systems like growing up and how integral has this been to you? Like, what did the support look like?

AD: So, as I mentioned, my parents are immigrants and so the type of support has been very different. My family is fairly spread out, summer in New York. I grew up in Georgia, and Alabama, and some of my family live in Trinidad and in Haiti and so unfortunately, we were more spread out than I maybe would have liked to be. And that was kind of hard and especially trying to figure out like, how to navigate Academia trying to apply for college let alone grad school. Like my family couldn’t really help because they didn’t, they hadn’t done it themselves so they didn’t really know what was going on there, but I will say like throughout my entire process, especially my dad, he’s been like my biggest supporter, he was a loudest person to my graduation.

JP: Okay.

AD: He’s so excited like I know who’s going to make a scene for my when I get my PhD too, but like stuff like that makes me really happy and like my godmother is very supportive. And so, they just reassure me even if they don’t understand what I’m doing, right? Like they have they could not explain at all what I’m doing in the lab, but they just are very proud of the things that I’m doing. They know that I’m doing good work. There always proud to say like, oh, my baby’s getting her PhD in Neuroscience. It’s really cute. My grandma tries. She for some reason, tells everyone I’m like a neurologist or like a neurosurgeon.

JP: In med school.

AD: Yeah, that’s what she thinks. But, you know, I’ve tried to make her understand, it’s okay as long as she knows, I do something with the brain. Like that’s like as good as its gonna get.

JP: Do you have a defense date? I don’t know if that question stresses you out. But have you defended already?

AD: I haven’t yet, it doesn’t stress me out. I just set my pre-defense date for May, May 17th is my pre-defense, everybody send me good wishes and you know, let’s hope that it all goes well, I’m excited about it though. The plan is for me to graduate in June, June 11th, I should be getting my hooding ceremony. So that would be exciting. But yeah, that’s the plan for right now and I am actually going to start and an assistant professor position after I defend.

JP: No way at UC Irvine?

AD: No, so, Oh I guess you’ll be the first person I’d be telling this to, like, publicly. Well, I haven’t fully announced it yet. But by the time, this airs I’m sure it’ll be like out by then, but I’ll be an assistant professor at the University of Minnesota.

JP: Oh, super cool. That’s awesome. Congratulations.

AD: Thank you. Thank you.

JP: Okay, so we just touched on support and a lot of people, I know they struggle, because they might not have that familial support like a lot of people do, right? So for me, for example, I really rely on my peer support system. So how do you think we can better support our colleagues? Like I know you are a very supportive person. I can just tell by your tweets and just like your personality overall, right? So what have you found to be the best way to support our colleagues and peers like kindness is a big one, right?

AD: Yes, absolutely kindness, but also sharing resources. So like one of the best ways that I’ve found to support my peers is like if I get any type of award, if I hear about any type of opportunity if I know of anything, I will like email people and be like, hey I heard about this I thought about you, I know this is something you’re interested in, you know. Or if I’ve gotten something. So, I was awarded the NSFGRP. I like constantly serve as a writing mentor and like peer tutor in that way, like overview people’s applications, give them feedback on it. I can’t tell you how many students I’ve talked to, in the past couple of times, just about like applying to grad school, you know, the application process just providing encouragement that like, yes, you should totally apply for this like, you know, I I go back to what my friend told me. I’m like the worst thing they can do is tell, you know, and so just, you know, keep trying, keep putting yourself out there. I talked them through, like the interview process. I try to, you know, give that type of guidance and peer support in the best ways possible. But I also think a big part of it is to talk about the things that you’re struggling with too. I’m very open and transparent about, you know, how I failed a lot of things and like I failed my first exam in grad school, but I’m still going to graduate right?

JP: Yeah, you’re still going to be a doctor right.

AD: And like it’s totally fine and I think People need to be more open and transparent about those things because it helps people feel comfortable and to know that they’re not alone in those struggles and that we’re all going through it. Right? Like nobody’s perfect. Nobody gets everything right the first time like that’s okay, but I think that’s one of the best ways that you can support your peers is by, you know, being honest about not just the things that you’re doing really well, but also things that you’re not doing so great at and giving them, you know, access to those opportunities and resources because not everybody has those same privileges that you grew up with, right?

JP: Yeah, yeah, definitely. And you know, it’s hard to because we are PhD students. A lot of this is stressful, but we’re doing our best to give back to the community, right? So how have you manage your stress? Like, what goes on in your routine that helps you do this and as PhD students, I’m sure you do this often and I know like a stressed undergraduate or high school or can benefit from hearing this as well. But can we take a page out of your book? Like do you have any tips and tricks for managing this school for managing stress?

AD: Oh uh for managing stress, mine probably aren’t the healthiest mechanisms. I am very much a foodie. I love desserts. Like that is like my number one go-to for anything. Like if I’ve had a long day. I will go get some ice cream. I will get like, I will indulge in chocolate cake and cookies and anything that, you know, makes me feel better. Yeah, this is totally fine with me. You know, it probably long-term. It’s not the best option. But right now, it makes me really happy. So, I’m going to keep doing it.

JP: Okay. Now, what about in the times you are experiencing imposter syndrome because stress is one thing, but another thing that just lingers with me, for example, is, is that imposter syndrome? Like, should I be here? You know, like should I be in graduate school? Is this, is just a, I don’t know. This is something I experienced a lot, and I know a lot of my peers do to so, have you ever felt that and what have you done to kind of cope with it?

AD: Yes. So, when I, when I actually got my acceptance to UCI for grad school, they called they called us. So, I got the phone call and they’re like, oh, Like you’ve been accepted and I was like I had to pause because I just couldn’t believe what I was.

JP: I’m being punked. Kind of.

AD: Yeah, and like even after we got off the phone I was like, oh they’re going to call back and tell me they made a mistake and then like even when they emailed me like the acceptance letter and stuff. I was like, they’re going to send me an email saying, like my bad. We accepted the wrong person. Like I was just waiting for that to happen because I really did not feel like I belong. I didn’t feel like I deserve to be there. I didn’t feel like, you know, it just felt like they were making a mistake and of course, like, right now, I know that that’s completely wrong. Like, I absolutely deserve to be here there and anyone else who gets accepted like they thought about you, you went to the application process. You went through the interviews. You excelled at that; you’ve shown that you will be an amazing student. And so, you absolutely deserve to be there. So don’t belittle yourself in those ways. I still feel it, sometimes. Even now, one of the things that helps me a lot is, of course, having a support system of my peers, right? So, not even just my family because I mean your family they’re always going to think you’re great even if you’re not really.

JP: Your partner too right?

AD: Yeah, but having some really good peers. So, I have friends who are also in graduate school. I friends from undergrad who I talk to all the time and like if I’m just like, I can’t do this. Like I don’t know what I’m doing there. Like, girl, haven’t you seen all of the things that you’ve done? Do you not see all these things you’ve accomplished? Like, what are you talking about? And just like that, reassurance. And that support is really helpful. Also, it’s helpful for me is, sometimes I’ll make a list of, so my CV is helpful to look at your list of accomplishments, are all the things that I’ve done, but also just like mentally thinking of like some of the things that I’ve accomplished and where I’ve gotten from gosh, even like I was thinking about this, it’s 2022 now. And so, like 10 years ago. I was a senior in high school and just see the growth and the progression from the past 10 years has been absolutely astounding. Like there is no way. I would have even fathom being here right now. So, I’m just I think those things help reassure me that like yes, I’m doing the right things. I’m on the right track like I’m doing okay, and I deserve to be here as much as anybody else does.

JP: Yeah, that support systems huge. I don’t know how I would be here at UNC without the support system. I have like my friends from undergrad, the friends I’ve met here. It’s just, it’s really great having them, for sure. Okay, this is somewhat irrelevant but a like topic that I really want to dive into. Okay. So, let’s pretend you are the president of UC Irvine and you had all the money and power in the world to do what you want. What are your thoughts on how we can make STEM, science, biology more diverse and more inclusive. Do you have any ideas on like initiatives that can better support and empower students from historically underrepresented backgrounds?

AD: I’ve actually been thinking about this because as I go into my new position, as an assistant professor. I will also be leading a lot of DEI initiatives, and my program directing. And all of these things are very close to my heart. Like it’s very important to me to constantly give back to our community is, I’m sure, you know, like coming from, you know, underrepresented backgrounds. Like it’s just, it’s so important that we’re constantly giving back because we know that people aren’t afforded the same opportunities. And so one of the biggest things that I’ve been thinking about is reaching back, not just to undergraduates but K - 12 students, right? Going out into the communities, showing them from a young age like Like, this is, first of all, this is what science is. This is what real science is.

JP: Yeah, you should be excited about this.

AD: Just so, you know, this is the thing. It’s really cool. But then also, I didn’t have a lot of guidance when I was applying to even college, right. Like I said, my parents don’t have college degrees and so they didn’t have a lot of, you know, guidance for me. I actually only applied to bisque like, that’s the only application, I fully submitted. And the only reason I applied there is my dad used to work in the cafeteria there and he was like this would be, you know, it seemed like a good school, you should come here, and I was like, all right. Sure.

JP: The rest is history.

AD: Yeah. Like, thankfully. I was a good student. So, I got a full ride and like, that was amazing. We also didn’t have money to pay for school. So, like that was wonderful, but I think even just like meeting students and talking to them about, you know, this is what college entails. Here’s like a bunch of different majors that you could major in. These are a bunch of different careers you could have of those Majors. These are things that you can do. I think like exposing students to things at a young age and building genuine connections with them is such a big deal. And I mean that all falls under, under being a mentor to them this mentorship piece people kind of like glance over and they’re like, oh, yeah, you can, you know, have a mentor, anybody can find a mentor but really, if you don’t know where to start like you just have no idea. I didn’t have a mentor pretty much until unofficially in undergrad. But I didn’t have an official mentor until graduate school and so that piece and it’s stuff. I didn’t even know how to find a mentor. Like I had no idea how.

JP: Literally an email.

AD: You know, like yeah, like what am I supposed to email you about? What am I supposed to talk to you about? I don’t know what I’m doing. So, how can I ask you questions? And I think anyone can do that. Anybody can be a mentor to people from these historically underrepresented backgrounds and so, you know, if I was President University or something a huge initiative, but I would want to undertake where it’s not just undergrads and grad students. But also, faculty and other people who are really invested in this like actually going out to these communities and reaching these students at a young age. And, of course, like, you’re not going to see such a quick, turnaround of, next year, will have like 50 new people from underrepresented groups, but 10, 20 years down the line, like the type of impact that’s going to have, that’s going to have, will be absolutely amazing. And so that’s like one of the things I’m really thinking about and trying to find the best ways to do it. I mean, of course, it takes time, you have to develop those relationships, you have to build trust within those communities, but I think that’s the best way that you can actually help people, you know. Get to these points where you’re trying to get them at and avoid that whole like leaky pipeline Trope. Because, you know, you’re actually like guiding them along the way and helping them a Friday them with support and resources that they need.

JP: Yeah. I completely agree and I love that kind of Grassroots bottom-up approach right now. What about the tools to get them there? Right. So, one thing that I’ve had trouble with is I’ve had meant he’s asked me about. Like OK JP. Do you know where we can get the money to apply for these things? Like, I know fee waivers are things but like, where do I access them? How do you think we can make these tools or resources more accessible? Like yes, we have ourselves as mentors. But do you think there’s a way that institutions can do better on that part, like an administrator and an administrative role kind of?

AD: Oh absolutely. Like I didn’t you pretty much that. But money is everything, money is access to everything. Money is access to these resources, money is for the funding for like lab equipment. Money is, you know, paying students a livable wage to, you know, be able to do the research, right. It’s paying for their housing paying for their flights to attend things. Like money is how things get done. Right? Like that is literally what it is in science. People are saying like Publications or currency, but no, it’s money.

JP: Currency is currency.

AD: Because you have to, have the money to be able to, like actually do it to pay people. Right?

JP: Yeah.

AD: And so that’s one of the things that institution is really need to. If you say you’re committed to this and you’re invested in it, like, you need to put the money where your mouth is, you need to create, you know, programs that bring students from HBC’s - HBCU, HSIs is, you know, into these institutions that bring Native American students and let next students and you know, all of these other students like providing them funded opportunities to get things done. So, if you’re talking about, we want to reach high schoolers like, okay, you need to find a funded opportunity to be able to get them in a lab to get them experience. Right? If you’re talking about like for undergrads and stuff, right? Paid summer research opportunities. It doesn’t just pay them, you know, a stipend but like covers their meals, it gives them professional development resources, that you know, connects them to these things for grad students, like pay your grad students.

JP: Exactly right, I’m smiling over here.

AD: And it’s insane. And even like, with postdocs and stuff, like, coming from low-income backgrounds coming from an immigrant family. Right? Like the money that we make, isn’t just for us. It’s not like, it’s just supporting us. Like we send money to our families. We have people other people that we have to take care of and like even though, you know, thankfully I’m going to be making more money as an assistant professor than I do now as a grad student, like, am I really? Because I’m going to be spending money like to my grandmother, you know, like you have generations behind me that you’re trying to help. And so, I think that, you know, being able to financially support people in those ways and provide them access to those opportunities is really what’s going to make a difference, right?

JP: So, what do you think is the biggest push back? Right? Because I feel like now, a lot of students, a lot of Faculty are talking about this. A lot of discussions are being had, but I feel like things aren’t happening fast enough and I know it’s not a Sprint it’s a whole Marathon, but like, what do you think the biggest push back is, why do you think things aren’t happening faster?

AD: In all honesty, I think it’s because people are hesitant in some ways and also, like, really, they have issues with saying that this is a funding source specifically for historically excluded groups, or this is a funding source for black students or this is a funding source for Native American students, right? Like, they have such a huge problem with it, just being like, for this specific group, who really needs it because then it’s always like, oh, What about this group? What about that group? What about that one? It’s like okay. Like, yes, we can focus on these other groups. But right now, this is what we’re focused on, right? And so I think that’s where like, the big confusion is, and people are just like, oh, well, we have to worry about everybody, but it’s like, okay, but not everybody is having these same types of struggles. And if you’re going to focus on these groups, you need to really focus on these groups, right?

JP: Yeah. I know that’s, that’s amazing. And I love that answer. It’s just frustrating knowing that like, a lot of people think like this.

AD: Yeah, yeah.

JP: So how does it feel to be at this point in your career in STEM? Right, you just earned a position. You will be Dr Dukes. Can you reflect on that. Like, if you were to give a thank you speech. What would it be? No pressure. I know that puts you on the spot.

AD: You said, if I were to give a, thank you speecj?

JP: Yeah, like, how does this feel? It’s pretty amazing coming from, you know, your background and being at the point where you’re at.

AD: Yeah. It’s a honestly, like, I haven’t spent too much time. I need to do this more. like, I mean, to reflect on like, where I’ve been and like all my questions and stuff because I mean I just do, you know, the little things every day. Just kind of like chugging along and I don’t really think about it, but I am amazed by how far I’ve got gotten like growing up. I always thought, you know, I was going to, but the plan was to be pediatrician. I want to go to med school, right? Because like that’s what you do when

JP: All of us.

AD: Yeah. That’s what they tell you like. Go be a doctor. Go be a lawyer like if I

JP: make some money.

AD: And so that was like what I was set on and even going into undergrad like I was on the pre-med track like that’s what I was going to do. I just knew that was going to be my life. And so, when I had my little, my first existential crisis and undergrad where I decided I didn’t want to go to med school anymore and I wanted to do something different. I would tell myself that, you know, it’s going to work out like it really is if you stick to the things that you’re passionate about and that make you happy like it’s going to work out. You’ll be so much happier and impacts so many more lives. by doing this then, you know, by just going through that school, right? Like there’s, there’s so many more things that you could do and really, it’s, it amazes me all the time. When I think about all the progress, I’ve made like with black and neuro and just connecting Scholars around the world and like, providing them with a platform and a community. It just it blows my mind to think about it, but it shows how much people really need this and that they just really wanted, you know, a space that they can do this and to know that they’re not alone and so for me to be able to help provide that has been like like the biggest accomplishment of my life so far, and I don’t say that lightly. It just it has been absolutely amazing. Like I’m so proud of being able to get this PhD but really the things I’m going to be able to do with it. Make me more excited like the notion of being able to continue to support, you know, students from historically excluded backgrounds and like help them see themselves in science. And some know this is like an opportunity for them and that they can get paid to do this. And then like, you know, they have so many more opportunities if this is what they’re excited about and what they’re passionate about, what they can do it too. I think those are the things that keep me going and like make me really, really happy. But if I were to do, like a, thank you to people who’ve gotten me here, really, it would be. Of course, my family for their support, but to my undergraduate professors and all of their mentors so far, like the first time I saw a black woman with a PhD was. When I went to college, I didn’t even know that was a thing for I hadn’t seen, you know, black women a scientist before then. I never even knew that look like a PhD, was a thing that, you know, someone who looked like me and came from my background could do and so I’m so grateful for them for showing me that this is an option and like, I’m so happy that I get to do that for other people now. Like, that makes me way happier than I think, you know anything else could at this point. Like it just I’m absolutely thrilled and really, I think the main person in this going to go on my when I do my defense to when I do my acknowledgements.

JP: Your acknowledgements slide.

AD: Yeah, like my husband has been absolutely amazing. He’s been so supportive throughout like all of this like no matter how long nights and long days I have in lab or like when I spend my weekends doing black in neuro stuff and, like, you know, he’s just been the number one support occurring throughout all of this. And so, I’m really grateful to him too.

JP: That’s awesome. I just love, love this because like, this is the future of stem, you know, like and it’ll be a huge part of that. So, this is the, I don’t know why this popped up in my mind, but it - did Raven, the science Maven, is she at UC Irvine too?

AD: Yeah, yeah, so she’s here. So, it’s actually

JP: Dynamic duo, so cool.

AD: Yeah. She’s amazing. It’s so when she was graduating last year and looking for positions. I had actually reached out to our associate, to get a DEI here, and I was like, hey, like she’s looking for positions. She wants to move to Southern California. Like, you know, how to get her. Yeah. And so, I’m thrilled that she’s here. She’s gonna do like such amazing things. I’m super, super excited for her.

JP: That’s super cool. Okay. Do you want to plug black and Neuroscience? Tell us how it came to be, what it’s all about.

AD: And yeah, so with black and neuro, it started off in 2020. Of course, is that like the height of, you know, the social unrest and when people were really taking a note of police brutality and its impact Black Americans, and black people around the world just really going through it. Um, and I think being a black person in Academia and in science in general, it felt very isolating because although people were really having these conversations especially initially on social media and, you know, in the news and people were talking about it. It wasn’t really talked about, you know, in lab settings, right? Like, you go to lab. People are like, oh, it’s just science. Like just focus on that. And that’s not what we could do. You know, I absolutely could not. I was actually supposed to advance to candidacy around that time. And I was not there like at all. Like I just, I could not care about the science that I was doing when I was more concerned about my life and my husband’s life and, you know, my dad’s life and I was just, I could it wasn’t happening, things.

JP: The whole world got put on pause, you know, like essentially.

AD: Yeah. And like thankfully, I have my advisor was really supportive and understanding of my committee was to, I push back my advancement. They understood every, you know, that I just wasn’t there right now. And so that was fine. But I really wanted to connect with other black Scholars who were experiencing the same thing. And I when I started grad school, it was only myself and one other black women in my program, Elena and she’s like absolutely amazing. And she’s been, you know, like my closest friend throughout all of this like you’re at this whole process and she and I would like to talk about it, but it just didn’t seem like it was enough like other people weren’t talking about it and so with black and neuro, like I said, I just kind of sent the Tweet out and it blew up from there. It was really only supposed to be a week. So we were inspired or I was inspired by black birders week and black and Astro. So if you aren’t familiar with those there other like black and movements that really highlight black people within those fields. And so I thought it was amazing to see and I love seeing, you know, black people thriving and all of these different fields, but I was like, where are all the black neuroscientists, right?

JP: Real quick. My bench Mentor. In my rotation is Alex Stedsmen who founded black in genetics.

AD: Nice. Nice.

JP: Yeah. Sorry.

AD: I know it’s amazing. It’s really, really amazing. So yeah, like I was inspired by them. And so, I just like, send out a Tweet. Now, she’s like, so what are we going to do a black and neuro week? Right? And I didn’t expect it. I didn’t have a whole lot of, like, Twitter followers anything. So I was like a, maybe one or two people might be that, but quite a few people were like, oh, yeah, I would love to see that. That would be amazing. And I was like, okay cool, but I can’t do this by myself. If, you know, other people want to help out, let me know. And so I sent that tweet out on a Friday, 20 plus people were like, oh, yeah, I’d love to help the sphere. Amazing. I can help organize like they were, like, tagging their friends and stuff. We made a slack channel that same day by Sunday. We had our first meeting and then three weeks later. The first black in neuro week was born and it was so cool.

JP: That’s so cool.

AD: It was amazing. Absolutely amazing. And really the whole point of it, you know, as I mentioned was to just celebrate Black Scholars to Not just the research that we do but like who we are as people to provide a community for them to like offer some types of resources, and it was just, it was only supposed to be a week. We did not expect it to go beyond that, but like after black and heroic, we know that we knew that we couldn’t stop. There was just no way. And so, in the past year and a half since you know, it first started we’ve hosted, I think it’s over 70 plus events. We’ve had over 2,000 attendees for each black and neuro week. We’ve had two black in neuro weeks so far. From, I think it’s over 65 different countries who’ve attended. And so that’s just absolutely amazing to me that so many people are interested in, so passionate about it and we’re just getting started. Which yeah, which is so exciting.

JP: Yeah. It’s amazing.

AD: And just to see the growth that we’re going to have, and we have so many events are planned for, you know, this upcoming year and so many more, exciting things and are really just trying to help create these spaces. So, black Scholars can continue to thrive even well beyond that, you know, beyond this just being a trend or just being, you know, the Hot Topic right now for people to talk about like we want this to be a lasting Community where people can find each other and find support and can, you know, really just know even though you might be the only one or two in your department? You’re not the only one like there are people here who love you and want to see you succeed and we’ll try to help you get there.

JP: Yeah, definitely. Yeah, so inspiring. Yeah, it’s your Tweet was a tweet heard around the entire Neuroscience World. It sounds like, okay, so that’s kind of all the questions I had for you. But is there anything else you’d want to say on this platform free rein, um, other than fun questions I have set up for you.

AD: But oh, let’s see. I think I just want to reiterate to students that to find the things that you’re passionate about and to just go for it. Right? Like there is no reason why you can’t, you might face some like rejection and failures along the way, but that’s the part of the journey, right? And it makes your story so much more interesting when you share it later. But to also, while you’re going along that journey to make sure that you reach back and pull someone else up with you.

JP: Yeah, definitely. Yeah, there’s a beautiful Toni Morrison quote, that that popped in my mind. You see that, I gotta find that quote now because I can’t, I can’t like say it off the top of my head. All right, you ready for some fun questions?

AD: Yeah.

JP: Do you have a celebration song for whenever something goes, right? Right, and if so, what is it? Mine is Run This Town. Rihanna, Kanye JayZ.

AD: Oh, I don’t have, I don’t think I have a celebration song right now, but I have a name for watch, Like The Princess and the Frog. And so right now I have like Tiana’s, like, almost there song that my anthem for finishing graduate school. So I’ve been listening to that, almost every morning because I’m just like, I’m almost there. I’m almost there, like yeah.

JP: Okay, favorite thing to do outside of science.

AD: Outside of science. This is lame. But I really enjoyed just a binge watching like Netflix and Hulu and whatever like is on there. It’s just so nice for me to zone out and to not think about science. Sometimes I’ll do it and like I’ll build a puzzle or something while I’m doing it, but it’s just nice to not think about anything science related didn’t for a while.

JP: Yeah, agreed. Okay, this might be off topic, but my partner has never watched Harry Potter or read Harry Potter and we just been we’ve been binging the Harry Potter movies. She’s just blown away. I’m like, how did you not see.

AD: It’s so good. Yeah. I ended up a couple years ago before covid hit Universal Studios out here like they had the whole little Harry Potter world here I wanted to go but I was like, I need to binge watch all of the movies before I go. So I know what’s happening.

JP: Yeah, I was born and raised in La so the Harry Potter world is yes. Okay, two more. Do you know what your name means? And why you think why do you think you were named your name?

AD: So, depending on the translation? It’s either like just angel or it’s like messenger of God, but, you know, can translate the same way and it’s probably just and mostly derivation of my mother’s name. So, my mom’s name is Angenine. And so, then it’s like, Angenine and Angeline, and yeah.

JP: Alright. Last one. You ready? What’s your favorite non-stem book or podcast or anything else of this source?

AD: Favorite Non-STEM.

JP: It’s a hard one

AD: I don’t know if I have a favorite right now. I am actually also reading the Harry Potter books right now. Oh like rereading them. Yeah, so it’s too good. I guess that’s what like I’m into right now. But as far as like a favorite one, oh, that’s hard. I don’t know. I might have to think about that.

JP: All good. All good with that will be a TBD. Well, that’s all I have for you. Thank you, so much for coming on. Are your experiments on a timer right now?

AD: Yes, I have to go back in seven minutes.