The Struggles of BIPOC Undergrads: Brian Zou & Evelyn Montenegro

This past week, I got to sit down and interview Brian Zou (Macalester College) and Evelyn Montenegro (UC Davis) about their journeys in STEM as underrepresented students. Zou and Montenegro are undergraduates who are undoubtedly going to change their communities with their intelligence, grace, and compassion. I am very grateful I met them, and I hope y’all enjoy listening to them as much as I did.

Transcription

Transcribed by Greg Kyle (he/him)

JP Flores (he/him): What’s up y’all? Welcome to the very first episode of From Where Does It STEM? I’m your host JP Flores. I’m an undergraduate at Occidental College in Los Angeles, California. I am a cellular molecular biology major with minors in public health and Neuroscience. I do research on the Venom of fish-hunting cone snails, and I’m also an NCAA division 3 baseball player. I created this podcast to empower you, low-income, first-generation, LGBTQ+ and BIPOC students. My goal is to capture the unique stories of different scientists of varying backgrounds and the adversity and challenges they’ve had to overcome to get to where they are. Today, I interviewed two amazing undergraduate students who I’m incredibly grateful to have met. Without further ado, here they are. So where exactly does this all stem?

Brian Zou (he/him): Well, hello, I’m Brian. I use the pronouns he him and his. I’m a junior at McAllister College studying chemistry with an emphasis in Biochemistry as my major and I’m minoring in Spanish and biology. Also following the track of pre MSTP our medical scientists training program. So I guess that segues pretty well into hopefully in the future I’ll be a physician scientist practicing as a psychiatrist and doing research and drug design chemistry. Hopefully, I’ll be able to tie those two together alongside my other passions also for social justice and working towards decolonizing STEM in many different ways that our current education system is set up. Fun fact, what’s a fun fact. Recently I’ve been thinking a lot about fun facts because one podcast I’ve been listening to about interviews for med school and grad school is like have a fun fact on hand and I’m like great can’t think of one. Usually I go around saying like my fun fact is my secret talent is being able to fall asleep anywhere. So I guess I’ll use that one.

JP Flores (he/him): Evelyn, go ahead.

Evelyn Montenegro: Hey guys, I am a fourth at UC Davis. My major is Microbiology. I just switched into it. I took a an intro to mic class about a year ago, fell in love with it. I used to do biochem. Thank God I’m out of that. I guess my goal, my ultimate goal is to be MD. That’s my goal right now. I want to be a pediatric oncologist specifically just because or somewhere centered around cancer. I’m kind of, I’m super unsure. I have everything in the air and I think that’s why I wanted to do the podcast because I feel like every pre-med has it figured out, you know, like or like they seem like they have a figure out. I’m in a pre-med frat. So it’s kind of, it’s very competitive. So like for kids who like are super lost and like maybe they really messed up their first two years. I did I had to do a 5th year because of it and my counselor told me that I should change my career goal. And I feel like hearing that like obviously I heard it and I it and I switched my career around like I started doing better in school. But I think if someone else were to hear it, it would completely like mess up their whole like future just like their drive to become a doctor and I think it’s really important for kids to hear that I may not be as involved in school. But like it’s never too late like you like even if you’re a junior or senior you can still join clubs you can still, there’s time, you know, and think that just by them hearing like the Superstar pre-med like the kids who are super involved in everything or have it figured out already like they get discouraged. It’s really important for them see to see that kind of side. As opposed to a fun fact, I also struggle Brian. I guess I have two. This one always kind of like people get kind of shook. Ariana Grande follows me on Twitter. Yeah, exactly and I’m a huge Travis Scott fan. I love Travis.

JP Flores (he/him): oh, yeah for sure.

Evelyn Montenegro: But yeah

JP Flores (he/him): Man. No, I’m so excited to be interviewing y’all right now, what? That’s so cool. Yeah. So I mean there’s a lot of different ways we can delve into this right. The social justice side of things. Evelyn like why do you want to be in the field of like cancer and cancer research all of that Right? And I feel like all of us being people of color we do feel like sometimes we feel like we’re out of place in STEM, right? I’m a first-gen student. So I know that feeling right, but just just to know more a little about y’all what were your upbringings like? Like take us through the lives of baby Evelyn and baby Brian, and you know, maybe we can go up and build up to like, I don’t know, maybe your post High School grad selves.

Evelyn Montenegro: yeah, so, um I think my life my school life before College was super easy in a sense because I do come from a like my community is predominantly Hispanic, you know, so a lot of the kids they grew up their parents are immigrants first gen as well. So in my community going to college isn’t as isn’t as expected like the CCs are norm. Like if you go to CC like you succeeded in life, you know. Everyone goes to CC so for you to even go to like a city over or to like because I’m from Inland Empire. So to go to LA is even like a big accomplishment, you know, so for me to have gone six hours away to Davis was a huge accomplishment was like huge to everybody there. But like I think it’s just it’s perspective in a sense because I came here. And everyone was so much more prepared than I was you know, and I think it’s just super important to express the fact that like everyone starts differently. But yeah school back at home wasn’t, I didn’t struggle. Tests were easy, I studied at night for two hours and got an A, you know, so coming to Davis to UC like I came with the same mindset that I could study for two hours and get good grades and chemistry and bio and all that. But I quickly learned that that’s not the case, you know, so it was very hard for me to like assimilate and change my study habits. It took me two years to get the hang of it. And I think like seeing other people who did come from the Bay Area and who whose parents were in college and like had influences before I did, they already had it together like the game they had the ball rolling. Snap snap. They were getting A’s and B’s and I think it’s like it really sent me back in the sense that I got really discouraged from like medicine. But I think now like I’m pretty good. But yeah, it really affected me in the sense of like obviously community-based and stuff is different for everybody. But my upbringing yeah, it’s been pretty good. I don’t know. I’m my my parents are super supportive. So like luckily, even though I received the counselor’s criticism and stuff. Like I think I’m pretty determined no matter what. Wait sorry. I kind of sidetracked the question.

JP Flores (he/him): Oh don’t even worry about it don’t even worry about it. No, I mean no, but that’s that story just resonates with me so deeply, like unreal, like I remember getting Occidental and I’m like, I’m gunna sign up for all these STEM classes I want and I’m gonna do fine because in high school, I was studying like you said studying the night before and I was getting A’s. I think my first gen chem one grade was a 32%.

Evelyn Montenegro: So bad like

JP Flores (he/him): so so yeah, but no, I think that’s awesome and me and Ryan are from Brian and I sorry Brian and I are from smaller schools. So, um, I would be interested to know about your experience going to going to a bigger school after Brian kind of talks about his upbringing too. So, yeah.

Brian Zou (he/him): Yeah sure. Um, so I also grew up in a primarily immigrant City. I say I’m from Boston, but I’m actually from Quincy. So shout out to Quincy. It’s a predominantly an Asian immigrant City. So I went to a high school with a bunch of other Asian Americans. A lot of us were also first generation to go to college and apply to colleges and also didn’t have a very good guidance like counselor system in our school and the majority of the influences for this school is they push for students to apply to schools around the Boston area. I’m not sure if either of you are familiar with questbridge, but it was actually through questbridge that I got the chance to apply to a bunch of different schools around the country. Probably a mistake, I applied to over 30 colleges when I applied.

JP Flores (he/him): wait question, question. application fees?

Brian Zou (he/him): Questbridge covers.

JP Flores (he/him): Oh, that’s nice. That’s nice. I love that.

Brian Zou (he/him): So that was yeah. That was that was good. I randomly like ticked on McAllister. And it was like a good chance for me to get to move away because I think that distance has definitely helped me grow as a person but I guess a little back to myself. So my parents, they’re immigrants and neither of them finished high school and they work in a restaurant and they actually work full-time and it’s a family business and that’s actually where I grew up. I grew doing my homework half the time and answering phone calls and doing other things to help out at the family business, which actually like, I mean when I got to college I realized that that actually impacted my learning but not until college that that was a thing because like both of you like classes in high school were like decent like it wasn’t like I was acing all the things but it was like, you know, I didn’t have the amount of time that I do now. And so I got to college also with that same mindset like, you know, I did well in these previous classes, so why can’t I do well now. First gen chem grade I was the class low

JP Flores (he/him): Trust me. I just admitted my grades so. It’s how they get you, gen chem one. I’m telling you. Gen chem one as a class.

Brian Zou (he/him): Yeah goodness. Um, but it was after that that I was like, okay. I thought I knew what I wanted to do. Now I don’t know what I want to do anymore. And it’s been like that ever since honestly, like even though I say like I want to do this and that and it’s like no every test has an impact on how I think and every day feels different. You know some days I’ll be like, hey, I want to do this, and some days it’ll be like I’m dropping STEM I’m dropping my major whatever it is. And but I also want to acknowledge that that also comes with me and my many privileges as an Asian American right? I’ve seen that representation in science growing up and Asians as of demographic of the population only make up 5% but they make up greater than 5% of people in sciences.

JP Flores (he/him): Yeah, I mean we I feel like y’all consider the, do you consider Gen chem one is like kind like a quote on quote weed out class, right?

Evelyn Montenegro: Definitely.

JP Flores (he/him): Yeah, and I just feel like weed out classes should not be a thing. Like we should most definitely destigmatize the notion that these are weeding out people that have an innate talent for science, you know what I mean. I I feel like once we get away from that and kind of kind of strive for just an equitable learning environment, I think that’s when diversity in STEM and full inclusion STEM will will just kind of like take off. Right because hearing both of y’all’s stories it’s like, we’re just like, what do we do? What are we doing next? Just having that support system. Yeah. So Brian, sorry I missed it. Did you are you close with your parents as well? Like do you that familial support system?

Brian Zou (he/him): Um in terms of going into well in terms of going into science, yes and no. Basically, I think a lot of immigrant children face this like growing up. It’s like you’re gonna become a doctor. I did not want that when I was young. I was like, there’s no way I’m going to like 15 years of school and like all this and that. And so I was like you know, I’ll do research because I was like, that’s the closest thing to science because I know I liked science but that also goes against my parents’ wishes. I was a rebel growing and still kind of am a rebel to be honest,

JP Flores (he/him): oh 100%. That’s so funny. I’m the same way. What about you Evelyn, growing up in latinx Communities how has that been for you? Is it more of like a family support? Community support? Friends? I lean on friends personally, but I’m curious.

Evelyn Montenegro: No, yeah, well my case is different because my parents are very very traditional. Luckily I was blessed. My parents like even though I’m a girl, I know several Hispanic households a lot of the parents have the idea that the girls should stay at home. And I know a lot of my Hispanic friends’ parents still have that belief that they get into conflicts with their parents because they want move away for college but, I’m not trying to step on any tails, but like a of the older generation of Mexican parents, especially dads, they think that the girl should stay at home and like cater like just like learn how be a good housewife, you know. and I think like the just luckily, [inaudible] my parents are super super supportive. They, whatever I wanted, they were like, yeah, just go for it. Do you. But I think it’s, it was, it put more pressure in the sense that when in my case I’m the youngest of four and my three older siblings, college wasn’t for them. Like they started their own, they went somewhere else. So it extra pressure because in a sense like my parents have sacrificed so much to be here. So I felt like because I was the last shot like having a kid who like made it to like grad school, you know having that. But also because like once I expressed my interest in becoming a doctor the fact like the idea of me wanting to divert from that was like completely unacceptable. I think my sophomore year I kind of questioned my pre-med journey and it was a huge argument in the like in the household because they were like, how are you gonna give up and because they already had in their head that I wanted be a doctor, you know, so giving that up was not even acceptable and in a sense it makes sense to me because, in my head, I took it like I kind of took it like a blow because I felt like I was kind of letting them down but it’s not even like that. It’s more so just following what you want to do and I think it should be definitely it should definitely be more more, it’s really talked about more the fact that it’s okay to change your Journeys and despite your parents disagreeing with you because I think at the end of the day, they’re gonna want they’re gonna love you as equal equally as if you did well with what they wanted. But yeah, like in terms of growing up in the Latinx community, it’s definitely pressurized. But I was one of the few lucky ones that didn’t have an extra pressure fighting with my parents still in order leave. So I think it’s just like overcoming just the cultural boundaries and stuff. And yeah.

JP Flores (he/him): Y’all, we’re only we’re only 30 minutes in and I’m already just like wow.

Evelyn Montenegro: Yeah. You guys are great. Honestly, like

JP Flores (he/him): No, what? Well, the thing is in creating this podcast, you know this being episode one. I didn’t really know where this was gonna go. You know what I mean. But hearing your stories is like, oh my gosh like this is, so I’m not the only one feeling these pressures from my parents, from kind of being like like feeling lost in college, you know going to our institutions, but ah man that’s awesome. It’s so cool.

[Interlude]

JP Flores (he/him): Alright so picture this. You are post high school, post high school graduates and you’re about to move into your first year hall or apartment or house. What did you wish you would have known going into your undergraduate career?

Evelyn Montenegro: OK, so I think for me because like they grew up in a super strict household, like I wasn’t able to go out. My friends and party during high school and stuff, you know, so I think the one big thing that I wish I knew when I first came to college was parties aren’t everything. I think I went out like at least like 3-4 times out of the week and I I would hardly study at night time as I think. Like. Just like if I had told myself to slow down like there’s going to be so many more parties, like your third or 4th year, you know like. It’s not the, it’s not the world if you don’t go out. You know or just.

JP Flores (he/him): Great.

Evelyn Montenegro: or just like, telling myself to just about have a good balance because it was very prioritized, it was kind of like letting a bird out of the cage. You know, I just kind of like let loose and stuff. So I think that’s the thing. Like, you’re always gonna have, like, outings with your friends, you’re always gonna have that, but you’re never gonna get the chance to study for your chem one class. You know like you [inaudible] So it’s kind of just like that [inaudible] the main thread. Yeah, I just like be yourself because I feel like I try to fit this mold very because Davis is like has a big Caucasian population. So I I try to kind of fit like their mold. When I first came to try and fit in and be, like, involved in clubs and I was very unhappy myself. So I think it’s just like important to stick to yourself. And be you, you know, like, stop trying to mold yourself to fit the environment that you’re in because you’re gonna end up you’re gonna end up finding like, your crowd and your people wherever you are. Yeah

JP Flores (he/him): oh 100 percent. I totally thought you’re going to go down the route of like, oh, I was an absolute party animal and like, just just do that as an undergrad, I totally thought you’re gonna go down that route. And I was like oh OK. Well, we’re going down there.

Evelyn Montenegro: I mean, if that’s you go ahead, but you know like.

JP Flores (he/him): Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Evelyn Montenegro: I don’t know.

JP Flores (he/him): No, I I mean so. So, yeah, coming in as a first year is like a. Yeah, as a first year it’s it’s funny because when you see, when you think of college parties, you’re like, oh, this is gonna be so fun, yadda yadda yadda. And I’m not gonna lie like my first two years I partied a lot. You know, I I did so. But the thing is, is once you get older, like, once you’re a junior senior, you start to realize. You’re gonna find your friend groups that accept you for who you are. You don’t need to do anything stupid, right? And I’ve come to kind of appreciate the little kickbacks and, like, little hangouts with my friends, right, like my best friends. Like maybe nine or ten of them. And I think that means a lot more than just going out to parties. I mean, again to all the listeners out there that are undergrads and going into college, experience it sure, why not? You’re you’re an undergrad once in your in your life, right? So I do encourage you all to—can I even say that? I do encourage you all to go out there and experiment with different things. But just letting y’all know you’ll experience, you’ll have a lot of friends that you can lean back on and kickbacks mean a lot.

Brian Zou (he/him): I’d first like to acknowledge that the three of us are really out here breaking the stereotypical science scientist stereotypes. JP, 9 or 10 best friends who—

JP Flores (he/him): Oxy Oxy is a small school man like we we we love each other out here it’s a small community.

Brian Zou (he/him): Yeah, that’s good for sure. For. Sure. Yeah, I’d say I definitely did the same thing as Evelyn. My I grew up with super strict parents. I had like a 5:00 PM curfew throughout, like. Until I graduated high school and even like the summer before college. So like, once I went off to college, I was like, I’m a free bird. I’m halfway across the country also. So like, things aren’t going to spread to my parents. So I, like, went out a lot. And like, also, like, went to sleep really late and, like, did a ton of things that. Now looking back, like were kind of stupid like. If I was to tell my younger self things that feel like you know, value your sleep. And like your health, like taking care of your physical health, your mental health, whatever that would be like, there’s always more time to study and worry about upcoming things. But taking care of yourself is what’s going to preserve you. And get you through, right? And there’s always going to be orgs and people that are going to need things from you and it’s good to set those boundaries early on. And like, honestly, take care of yourself. And if that means going out to party on a Friday night, then go do that. And if or if that means like sleeping in until like noon on Sunday or whatever it is like, do whatever you need and like, don’t compare yourself to other people like you’re on your own journey and you’re on your own path like learn for yourself, but like also, don’t be afraid to ask for help like everyone like. Now as like someone that’s older, I’m like if you have questions like please come to me. Especially like other first gen students. Other BIPOC students like we are so happy to help we’ve been through it. And also like go to office hours. Your white peers are going to take classroom spaces already, so don’t be afraid to take up that space. Like, go and get your money’s worth from that professor’s knowledge and insight and advice.

JP Flores (he/him): I don’t know what route I want to go down like. Do I want to talk about social justice because I that is something I am passionate about. However, I know we can seriously just get down in the weeds on that so? Like for me, I’m very passionate about social justice in higher education. You know, hearing our stories. It’s like these weedout classes shouldn’t be weedout classes, they should be just and equitable. We should know about office hours just as much as our white peers, right? But what are your thoughts on like, different social justice issues, whether it be in education or you know, like, what do you, what do you all think? What are you passionate about, Brian? Because I know you said you’re pretty passionate about social justice, Evelyn, I’m sure you’re. I’m sure you are too, but.

Brian Zou (he/him): Yeah, definitely, definitely. I think part of the reason I chose McAllister was because of its focus on social justice. But also now coming to realize like Mcalister’s an institution and institutions are all parts of systems, right. I think all aspects of social justice are super interrelated, right? If you talk about liberation in terms of systemic oppression, that ties in so many different things, you can’t just liberate one aspect, right? You can’t just have racial liberation. That also ties in clearly with feminism and also educational access and healthcare access and housing access, and all these different things that are tied into how our society is structured and. So I think generally for me that’s something that I’ve started to take more into account with like how I approach different spaces. But to make social change comes with starting in areas that you’re most familiar. And for me that’s been fighting for college access issues and also different diversity equity inclusion efforts within classrooms and within educational systems, but also health inequities. For me, as someone that’s aspiring to the doctor, at least for now.

JP Flores (he/him): Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. You can let your career switch. Trust me, it’s fine. Everyone’s path is different for sure. Evelyn, I don’t know if you want to answer questions about social justice. I was also curious about is there a particular reason why you you’re interested in oncology cancer?

Evelyn Montenegro: Yeah. In terms of the social social justice aspect of the question, obviously I do. I do I like. I focus on [inaudible] making sure there’s equality among all races, but I’m not super super knowledgeable on the aspect like I haven’t really like delved that deep into, you know, like so it’s not really like not to say that I’m not super interested in it, but I’m just not knowledgeable on it like it’s too like the extent that you guys are, you know, like my passion lies more within oncology like you were saying

JP Flores (he/him): right

Evelyn Montenegro: But I I’m just gonna jump over to that oncology.

JP Flores (he/him): That’s good. Yeah. Go for it.

Evelyn Montenegro: So it’s more. Yeah, it’s more personal for me, like, cancer runs in my family and stuff. So like having parents, me being Hispanic from like a Hispanic woman, I felt like I grew up. My mom was diagnosed with breast cancer when I was four years old, Stage 4 and in our household, I grew up speaking Spanish first. Spanish is my first language growing up so we because all her kids went to school, she found it very difficult to communicate with doctors about her disease and stuff, she found it very it was hard for her to go through her chemotherapy journey and she had to do it alone because it was just her and my dad. And my dad had to stay home and watch us so he couldn’t even go out with her to the visits because, you know, he he had us to attend to, you know, so it was very hard for her because she was stage 4 and she had to get certain treatments done. Certain chemotherapies, but there was that language barrier gap in the sense that she felt she wasn’t getting proper treatment because of that. You know, unfortunately, because it was stage 4 while doctors turned her back because because, like, it was stage 4, you know, and then there was one doctor who did like to fight to treat her and stuff like [inaudible] So she beat the cancer, you know? So I think I do want to be that doctor to other migrant parents to other like migrant mothers, fathers who do feel as though the healthcare system has failed them

JP Flores (he/him): definitely

Evelyn Montenegro: And then kind of give them hope and hopefully, but and then for Pediatrics, just cause I love kids, you know, like to help a kid like. Like working with them it’s cool, you know? Like they’re so funny. So to be able to help a family [inaudible] Switch up. I don’t know. Yeah, we’ll see if it happens, I guess.

JP Flores (he/him): I’m glad that that turned into a positive. Oh man.

Evelyn Montenegro: Yeah. Sorry I came in super I came in [inaudible] I kinda set the mood super deep, but I

JP Flores (he/him): That’s what we want. That’s what we want up in here.

Evelyn Montenegro: I don’t know. Like, no, I don’t know. But yeah, just kids are funny. Like I’m a counselor for Camp Kissam, which is like a organization. And we give kids free summer camp, but we focus on kids whose parents have had cancer. And they’re amazing. They’re like, over the summer that they’re they’re I have 6 year olds, and there’s some way smarter, way more wise than I have because they been through so much, like they can’t even imagine. And just seeing them in that environment, seeing them still full, so full of joy, just convinced me that I do want to work with kids and stuff and just having that sense, you know, just that intellectual growth is amazing, but yeah.

Brian Zou (he/him): But yeah, I also just want to thank Evelyn for sharing, I know talking about some of these things can be really tough.

JP Flores (he/him): Yeah. What’s the program called?

Evelyn Montenegro: Camp Kissam. Yeah, we have, like, there’s so many chapters that throughout the states, I think I think our past camp, we provided like 200 kids with a free summer camp. It was amazing like.

JP Flores (he/him): That’s so cool.

Evelyn Montenegro: Yeah, it’s amazing. It’s it’s a week long summer camp and we have like go-karts. We have rock climbing walls and stuff for them. And it’s not just our support doesn’t just focus on solely summer camp. We have organizations throughout the whole year like we have meetups with them and the kids like [inaudible] like go over [inaudible] houses to have dinner and stuff, and I don’t know. Like, it’s such like a family based thing.

JP Flores (he/him): Yeah. Is this in Davis or in our area?

Evelyn Montenegro: no, it’s everywhere all over the US.

JP Flores (he/him): Oh. What that’s so cool.

Evelyn Montenegro: and Davis.

JP Flores (he/him): Gotcha. OK. No that’s awesome.

Evelyn Montenegro: Yeah. So our Davis’s chapter is the biggest chapter in the whole country. Slight flex, you know, but there’s chapters in all over the world like they’re in every college. Like, they’re in the majority of the colleges in the United States from the West Coast to east coast and it’s big.

JP Flores (he/him): That’s cool. Nah I I mean like listening to that it’s just like, man, I want y’all to be my doctor. For real. It’s like

Evelyn Montenegro: for real though

JP Flores (he/him): I I want y’all to take care of me. Yeah. Brian, are are you? I I don’t think I asked. Are you interested in a certain field within medicine or is that still being determined?

Brian Zou (he/him): I at least the current aspiration is psychiatry. But honestly, I’ve started doing a lot more clinical work in many different areas, and I find most things super interesting. So honestly, I wouldn’t even be mad about any specialty, but I think for me, psychiatry rings the most for right now, I think especially because in the communities that we come from, communities of color, like mental health is not something that’s talked about. And there’s so many different ways that that is tied to physical health as well that people don’t acknowledge generally. I mean, even as a society in the US and there’s so much that can be done in terms of healing in those areas.

JP Flores (he/him): 100% I I don’t know if I’m going to put this part in the podcast, what I’m about to say, but yeah, like mental health is especially important to me because I was admitted into a psychiatric center couple very recently couple semesters ago, and it’s just not what it needs to be at all. Not at all. It’s just like. Like. Someone who has mental illness should not be in a room with one window. They should not be in a room that feels like a cell. You know, so I I do think mental health is overlooked and I’m really glad that you brought those points up. For sure. So talking about because you’re talking about medicine, I am curious how are y’all doing during this COVID-19 pandemic? Because it’s it’s it’s been rough over here, you know, learning remote. I feel like I’m just exhausted after every zoom lecture. My schedule feels busier than ever because now everything is like time slotted out like I sent you all Google invite like Google Calendar invite. It’s like, Oh my God, I wish I could fly y’all out here for real. But yeah, how are how are your mental health? How’s your mental health doing? How is taking classes at McAllister and UC Davis remotely? How’s that going for you?

Brian Zou (he/him): With respect to like COVID, I think I’m fortunate that I still have a roof over my house, over my head and my parents are still healthy and everything, and that’s going well. And yeah, classes are going. At McAllister, we’ve shortened our semesters to be quarters, so we have double the amount of class time with half the amount of classes. So now. Like one of my classes is meeting for 2 and a half hours a day, three days a week and the other one is a similar requirement, so it’s a ton of it’s a ton of work throughout the week, and it’s exhausting to be on zoom for that long, but I mean, we’re making it through. It’s like I was telling one of my mentors earlier today that it’s officially hit the point in the semester where they’re like throwing content at us and like some of it’s like not even making sense at this point, but you know, we tread through like it’s OK.

Evelyn Montenegro: Yeah, same thing as Brian like luckily, I’m glad that my parents are healthy and stuff I still have a roof over my head. We weren’t too affected, but I know it has affected several families so it is and just the virus itself it’s super, seeing patients in like the worst state. It’s insane. And I hope that the vaccine does come out soon. But in terms of school academically, I think I over at I I underestimated how hard it would be. I found as soon as I found out it was online I just jacked up my units. I I know I told you guys I had finals, but I ended up so our summer sessions are six weeks long. I took 11 units. So yeah, it was hard. Like,

JP Flores (he/him): Evelyn

Evelyn Montenegro: yeah, yeah. I ended up taking 11 units in six weeks. I’m done. I can breathe. But

JP Flores (he/him): respect

Evelyn Montenegro: it was insane. Like, yeah. I think I fully underestimated how hard it would be. I thought being online would be easier, but it’s harder. One because it’s up to you to go to class. And two, they record it so you always make excuses. So the very last minute I can watch later, you know, and then you have like 10 to get through in one night.

JP Flores (he/him): Ohh yeah.

Evelyn Montenegro: But other than that I think I enjoy online a bit more. I do miss the social aspect of class where you’re in class sitting down with your friends. I think that’s what makes college great. So great. Just being there with people. But in the sense of like online you can, I like the fact that you can go at your own pace, you know.

JP Flores (he/him): Ohh yeah. Like, rewind it. Oh yeah.

Evelyn Montenegro: But then again, you rewinding, pausing, playing whenever you want or just coming back to it if you’re confused. But in the sense that’s all possible during real life, I think it just being come going virtual has taught me how to rely more on in the moment kind of class things and not so much like procrastinate.

JP Flores (he/him): Yeah, that, it’s. It’s funny because, like, who needs social interaction when you can just hop on a zoom and just ask deep personal questions to people you don’t know, you know? Alright.

Brian Zou (he/him): Exactly

JP Flores (he/him): OK um OK, let’s say if you knew a 4th grader wanted to be the next Iron Man or inventor, wants to be the next Jane Goodall, wants to be a doctor, a scientist, or just wants to change the world and they’re listening right now. What would you tell them? Evelyn, you can go 1st and then we’ll go Brian.

Evelyn Montenegro: Oh man, you kind of put me on the spot.

JP Flores (he/him): You can you can you can think about it a little bit. You can think about it a little bit. That’s a bi—that’s a deep question.

Evelyn Montenegro: Mmkay. Honestly. Yeah, because I’m sure that when I was four years old I wanted to be the most, like, ridiculous things ever, you know.

JP Flores (he/him): Yeah.

Evelyn Montenegro: Not saying [inaudible] ridiculous you know I’m, I’m just saying my mine personally were. But you follow your dreams. I don’t know. It’s hard. I think people are gonna—people. Like I just did, I’m sorry, but people are gonna say like, yeah. Like you’re just ridiculous. But I think just they’re not. I know like. To any 4th grader out there. I think it’s important. Just don’t get discouraged. Do what you do and you can don’t listen to anyone because if you want to do it, you are. Sometimes you’re gonna defy people. But yeah. Sorry that was super like

JP Flores (he/him): Yeah and it’s funny, because I thought about these questions too, and I was like, I like, would literally just sit in the shower and like, what would I answer? How would I answer that? You know, like, like, for me, for example, I would answer like. I would tell them that they’re powerful. You know that they are. They are really powerful, you know, like the next generation. Like, I also want to let them know that we’re listening as the people that are like, we understand how important it is for this, for the people, for the generation after us, to kind of take the reins and like lead everything. You know, it’s like how our professors are looking at us and they’re like, you’re y’all are the future. For sure it’s your it’s your time to save the planet, you know. And and it’s funny because that answer took me maybe a day and a half. To like to think of that because I was like, man, I don’t even know what I’d say. But I hope I stalled enough time for you, Brian. Like, what do you have an answer for this?

Brian Zou (he/him): I guess it’s all a little more have what your question reminds me of the meme. Have you seen the meme or it’s not really a meme, it’s a tweet. Someone asked their daughter or their daughter asked what it took to be an astronaut, and the mom said three things and the daughter is like, that’s only three things. And then the next comment is like, oh, what a motivational speaker. And honestly, like, I’ve started to think about a lot of things in terms of science in that manner as well, it’s like. You know, technically like, let’s take organic chemistry. It only takes three things: noticing patterns, knowing when to apply the patterns, and knowing the exceptions to them. But it’s through that experience that you learn. But I think back to your question is through a 4th grader. Aspiring to be whatever they want, I would say like believe in yourself and the haters are going to hate, but you do you and follow your dreams. Just make sure that it’s right for you when you go a long way and you’ll be able to find the support that is actually there for you and the people that aren’t there to support you. Like I don’t know, cancel them.

JP Flores (he/him): Yeah, no, is that everything that y’all wanted to talk about, like is there is there because there was a question I was like, maybe I can ask people about, you know, different challenges in their lives that set them back in their careers. You know, like as an undergrad like, like for you, I feel like you 2 answered that with that guidance counselor stories, right? Like, do you think, do you think those were your two pretty big setbacks or. Yeah, yeah. It’s so demeaning to hear that. Like, it’s just like how why are you belittling me right now? Like, you are a counselor. Like you should be empowering me and, like, encouraging me to apply to Stanford and Johns Hopkins and all these institutions. Right. But I guess we can get into Travis Scott a little bit. What is your favorite Travis Scott song?

Evelyn Montenegro: Oh, my gosh. OK. I get super excited cause like I literally love him so much. But I’m gonna go. I see. So I get asked this question a lot. Like, what’s your favorite song? And it’s so hard for me to pick you know cause kind of in the moment.

JP Flores (he/him): You can go 1, 2, 3 or five.

Evelyn Montenegro: OK. It’s like it’s like in the it’s like in the vibe moment. You know, if you’re like more chill if it’s, if it’s a more chill setting, I’ll go 90210,

JP Flores (he/him): OK

Evelyn Montenegro: OK, if it’s like a like a if it’s raging setting then I’ll go like, damn, I like OK, so driving I like Bad Mood.

JP Flores (he/him): OK.

Evelyn Montenegro: Driving I like to I I’m into Bad Mood right now, down to back to Owl Pharaoh his first album, but his new album Astro World, the one with the song with Sheck Wes, I can’t say the lyrics cause it’s super yeah, but where they yeah, that’s what the the

JP Flores (he/him): You won’t you won’t you won’t.

Evelyn Montenegro: I seem like a I seem like a fake fan right now, but I promise I know the lyrics. But yeah, I don’t know. I think just seeing him live it sounds like people hear me and I probably sound crazy to them, but like just seeing him live is like a different experience. You know, like, I don’t know.

JP Flores (he/him): I’ve heard he’s a great performer

Evelyn Montenegro: Yeah, I love music. And he’s amazing. But yeah. Yeah.

JP Flores (he/him): So if you so if you were to like like, try to pump yourself up before running, like I don’t know, like making cell cultures, you know what I mean like what like would you just go with a Travis Scott Song? Like you wouldn’t like for me I would go, like, Bohemian Rhapsody by Queen just because I like doing little parts I think that that just pumps me up hella, but so so you’re set on Travis Scott for sure, 100%?

Evelyn Montenegro: I mean, I have my moments, you know, I have my little simp moments they’re like, you know, but I mean,

JP Flores (he/him): Listening to Drake.

Evelyn Montenegro: in terms of, you know, you know how it be sometimes? Yeah. Travis Scott is like, I think he’s like my like, my go to hype person especially cause I I imagine me being at concerts and stuff. It’s so dumb but imagine me being at concerts and I get super pumped. But yeah, I don’t know. He’s cool. He’s pretty, yeah.

JP Flores (he/him): Yeah. What about you, Brian? Just you wanna pump yourself up? This is like an experiment that is going to lead to a publication. You know, what are what are you playing on the speakers right now in your lab?

Brian Zou (he/him): Um to be honest, what really gets me motivated to do work is, like, really dramatic and mellow music. So.

JP Flores (he/him): Are we talking Star Wars here or like Moana? Like like what are we thinking. Are we thinking like Beethoven, Bach?

Brian Zou (he/him): Do I want to expose myself?

JP Flores (he/him): Oh, I don’t know do you? I I’m down [inaudible].

Brian Zou (he/him): I’d say for me like generally it’s like I think something I’ve been listening to a lot recently is Andra Day’s Rise Up, I think.

JP Flores (he/him): Great song, great song I love it.

Brian Zou (he/him): Yeah, it helps motivate me to do work. I don’t know if it would help motivate me to do stuff in lab. But I think I remember back when I was in lab, back when I was in lab like six months ago

JP Flores (he/him): Aw man that’s so sad.

Brian Zou (he/him): before COVID. Yeah, I just put on random playlists. I think for me I’m not very good at following pop culture and so I usually get things like a lot later.

JP Flores (he/him): Oh, I’m not either. I’m still on those throwbacks, man. I’m still thinking like Rocketeer. Far East Movement like that. That song. Stereo Hearts, like all that’s still in my head.

Brian Zou (he/him): Period. Period.

JP Flores (he/him): Yeah, yeah.

Brian Zou (he/him): Yeah, I don’t know. I’d say if it was for lab the song I’d pick is probably something by Harry Styles.

JP Flores (he/him): Ohh dude, I love that I love him so much. You have no idea on his first album Sweet Creature, Two Ghosts. Ohh my and then his new album is just like like Falling, Adore You like I’m just like oh my gosh. Like this is this is unreal.

Evelyn Montenegro: That. That man is beautiful. I’m in the same [inaudible].

JP Flores (he/him): For real for real. Like. Ohh what? What does keep y’all going? Like, what is your motivation? You know, like we are in these, like times where we’re struggling. So like we are people of color in STEM like what is keeping us going? For me it’s my peers. I feel like everyone at Occidental is just so driven and motivated. My professors are just so supportive and they’re always checking up and I think that because I don’t have that family support, I get that peer support and for me that’s my motivation. It’s like I love when I get text messages saying, hey, you’re doing great, like you’re doing big things, you know. And I I’m curious like, what are what are you all? What are your motivations? Oh, she pointing. You’re pointing at you, Brian. I know she ain’t pointing at me cause that finger ain’t pointing at me.

Brian Zou (he/him): Wow um. Yeah, I’d say. For me, it’s also like peers. And like other people from college and some of my good friends from high school, right. And inspiring for what could be, right? I think it’s very easy, especially nowadays to lose hope and be fed up with everything that’s going on. But to realize that, you know, if we do end up losing hope and getting caught up in it, then who’s gonna actually do this work and push us towards a better tomorrow. And so I’d say that’s that’s that for me, especially like my faculty mentors, you know, majority of them are faculty of color or other staff of color within campus and other students like my best friends who message me every day and also inspire me to continue doing the work that we do at McAllister in pushing for change. Something we’re working on right now is pushing for more diversity and equity within the Chem department, especially talking about these weed out courses, right? How to make them more accessible for students of color and other students that don’t come from the advantage backgrounds that the majority of the demographic that shows up at our colleges are. Keeping me going.

JP Flores (he/him): I love I love that. If you want to also talk about this stuff that y’all are doing like we’re we’re doing a lot of stuff in our bio department. So maybe we can like McAllister, Occidental collab. You know, like just ideas

Brian Zou (he/him): Let’s do it. Let’s do it.

JP Flores (he/him): Yeah, I think that would be cool.

Brian Zou (he/him): How to keep them accountable.

JP Flores (he/him): Yeah, right. No, for real. That’s the big thing. That is the big thi—accountability. Like, once we graduate, can y’all stay accountable? That’s that’s the that’s for real. For real. Sorry, I got really pumped for that.

Brian Zou (he/him): Now to Evelyn.

JP Flores (he/him): Yep.

Evelyn Montenegro: Wait, I am curious to know how you guys how you JP how you know your group of buddies changed the bio curriculum to include social justice. I do, maybe for later. We can you can tell me about that. But that’s super interesting. But in terms of keeping me motivated similar to you guys, my peers in the sense. Yeah, I feel like because I do live, I do live six hours away from home. It’s hard for me to get I I know that my parents are super supportive, but in terms of they’re supportive in terms of me continuing college. Not so much in the sense where I’m struggling in a class, you know, because to them it’s to them it’s so easy. Like Ohh, they’re like what, you got a C like you’re not working hard enough. Like it’s because like like it’s because you went out last night because you did this did that, like get like we’re sacrificing so much and you’re not putting in the effort when little do they know like, I literally did not sleep last night like, you know.

JP Flores (he/him): For real

Evelyn Montenegro: But it is, it is mostly your peers because like it it’s so easy to get put to put yourself down by comparing yourself to others, you know in the same field as you, it’s so easy for you to fall down the wrong hole and by like like you said, JP, by hearing those texts, those like confirmational texts like you’re amazing. Like, I know you’re going to be destined to great things because you in your head like you’re not doing enough, but others see you as doing so many things. And I think it’s very important for you to hear those things. As as kind of a as kind of like a validation to your efforts,

JP Flores (he/him): For sure

Evelyn Montenegro: but yeah, just focus. I think it’s important to center yourself around people who understand where you’re coming from, understand any of the disadvantages that you may have had in the past and kind of keep them, keep those people around because they’re going to be your core through college and your rock that keep you kind of keep you keep you where you have to be to keep going and stuff. But yeah,

JP Flores (he/him): Oh yeah

Evelyn Montenegro: I, yeah, I love my friends. Like, they’re amazing. I love like college is amazing. I don’t know. Like, just like, yeah.

JP Flores (he/him): For real. Ohh my as first gen. students it’s like man this is great.

Evelyn Montenegro: Yeah, I mean, just like I’m enjoying the ride, like, I don’t know.

Brian Zou (he/him): These are the types of convos that also need to be happening in science, and like they’re not, and so it’s really important to, like, continue this and also y’all are just amazing. So I can [inaudible] would really like to stay connected.

JP Flores (he/him): Yeah, I mean, that’s all I have for y’all. So this is awesome. People of color in STEM. Let’s go. But yeah, if there’s anything I can do for y’all, please let me know if you need support or anything like that. I’m always going to reach my hand out. So thank you both for doing this. It really means a lot to me and it means a lot to also hear these stories. You know, like it’s so nice to be able to relate to people, very like-minded driven people. Other than that I’ll let y’all go. It was really, really nice meeting you.

[musical interlude]

JP Flores (he/him): That concludes our inaugural episode of From Where does it STEM? Up next, we have an absolute power couple who just accepted professorships. Yes, the both of them at the Stanford University. For more information, please follow me JP Flores on Instagram at JP Flores under score 31. Please also follow @ From Where Does It STEM on Instagram as well as @ Where Does It STEM on Twitter. Thanks for listening y’all, much love and stay tuned for more.